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Lds Doctrine Regarding America In Biblical Prophecy


Uncle Dale

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I was recently re-reading LeGrand Richards' "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder."

As I recall, this was the text the Mormon missionaries used to recommend to us non-members, way

back in the 1950s. We were told that Elder Richards outlines the instances of America having been

mentioned prominently in ancient Israelite prophecy ---- and that the Bible had once contained a great

deal more of this America-specific prophecy, before its removal by the Great & Abominable Church.

Looking over Elder Richards' book, I see that he makes a big thing of 2nd Nephi's chapter 10 -- but

that is not taken directly from the Bible (despite some occasional short paraphrases).

Again, in his discussion of the "Gathering of Israel," (chapters 15 & 16) the writer has some things to

say about Israelite prophecy and America. He quotes from Jeremiah and Isaiah, but does not explain

fully what biblical passages Mormons say must refer to the New World.

My hazy recollection of past LDS teachings in this regard, seemed to fit the hemispheric model for the

Book of Mormon geography (and ancient spread of Nephite Christianity, etc.)

Has modern LDS teaching on this subject changed in the last few decades.

What biblical passages do the modern LDS leaders say specifically refer to America? Do those passages

refer to a tiny Nephite nation, hidden away in the jungles of Central America? or to something greater?

Uncle Dale

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Isaiah 2:

1 The word that aIsaiah the son of Amoz bsaw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lordâ??s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

This passage is oft cited as referring to the Church being established in Utah, or the top of the mountains.

I always enjoyed listening to LeGrand Richards speak, but reading A Marvelous Work and a Wonder was painful. I euphemistically called it a marvelous quirk and a blunder because I felt it helped people in spite of how poorly written I thought it was.

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Will people STOP with the Hemispheric Model and the Limited Model malarkey????

Lamanites which were ALL the peoples of the America's and the Islands of the sea, are still so, because they were the non-nephite, not simply those descended from Lehi. So, the so-called Hemispheric model has not been replaced by the limited model, and the limited model also always existed from the beginning. Further, the condemnation of the Hemispheric model does not account for the fact that Lehi's blood is likely in basically all peoples of the Americas, just not dominate by DNA standards. Is that really so hard to understand? We after all know from scripture that "Israel" is spread among all nations of the earth, and from that we also know that Israelite DNA whatever that even is doesn't show in most peoples. Is it so complicated to think that Lehi could be the Father and is among all the nations of the Americas and the Islands of the sea in a similar way as Israel? And further it does not account for the "spiritual" nature of the issue which in fact is exactly how LDS leaders think about these things.

They think on these things like how a Patriarchal Blessing works, as well as literal blood relation.

My Patriarchal Blessing say's I'm descended from so and so, from the loins of so and so etc.

ALL LDS know this isn't entirely "literal". Yet, anti's and even some LDS because of the anti's wish us to think that LDS comments of the past were somehow only referring to ONLY a certain lineage (Lehi, or Laman/Lemual), and that every single person on this side of the world (Native's of the Ameria's) were from that lineage, when that's simply not the case.

Both the Hemispheric model and the Limited models are valid.

What is not valid in the Hemispheric model is that some people may have innocently assumed that Lehi was the actual genetic father of all the peoples of the Americas. This is clearly incorrect. However, even then, I don't at all believe that as many people believed this as people especially anti's seem to think. I think most people have always had the common sense to know that the entire America's and the Islands weren't actually BARREN of life before Lehi came along. Therefore, because of this, it is clear then that when namely anti's who are looking back at peoples words on this issue, they aren't considering that most are LDS are likely thinking like the aspects I state in my first two paragraphs. People are trying to put earlier LDS comments into a box that I don't at all believe existed, especially when there are just as many "opposite" fuller detailing clarifications of the so called "limited" model in LDS history.

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...

Both the Hemispheric model and the Limited models are valid.

...

Thanks for the helpful clarification.

These days, in LDS Institute classes, which Old Testament passages are taught

as specifically referring to the Americas?

UD

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Isaiah 2:

This passage is oft cited as referring to the Church being established in Utah, or the top of the mountains.

Thanks for the info --

I've placed your contribution at the head of the list, on my "America in Prophecy" web-page:

http://olivercowdery.com/gathering/AmerProp.htm#notes

This Isaiah prophecy was the basis for the founding of the Mormons'

Evening and Morning Star newspaper at "Mt. Zion" (Independence)

in Missouri, in 1832 -- so that "the law" (latter day commandments)

would "go forth" thereafter, "out of Zion."

This prophecy is also oft cited as referring to the LDS Church being

established in Utah, or "in the tops of the mountains."

AmProph1.jpg

The Americas as a Land of Biblical Prophecy

Hopefully some of the members of this messaqe board can help me begin to round out the rest

of the LDS views, regarding biblical passages that relate directly to the Americas.

UD

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Duet. 33:3 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,

14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,

15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,

16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.

17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

T-Shirt

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Duet. 33:3 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,

14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,

15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,

16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.

17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

T-Shirt

I already had the "fruitful bough" quote on my web-site-in-progress, but I see I need to add your

"land of Joseph" citation as well.

Let me know if you think of any others.

UD

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Thanks for the info --

I've placed your contribution at the head of the list, on my "America in Prophecy" web-page...

Hopefully some of the members of this messaqe board can help me begin to round out the rest

of the LDS views, regarding biblical passages that relate directly to the Americas.

UD

Glad I could help.

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I was recently re-reading LeGrand Richards' "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder."

As I recall, this was the text the Mormon missionaries used to recommend to us non-members, way

back in the 1950s. We were told that Elder Richards outlines the instances of America having been

mentioned prominently in ancient Israelite prophecy ---- and that the Bible had once contained a great

deal more of this America-specific prophecy, before its removal by the Great & Abominable Church.

Looking over Elder Richards' book, I see that he makes a big thing of 2nd Nephi's chapter 10 -- but

that is not taken directly from the Bible (despite some occasional short paraphrases).

Again, in his discussion of the "Gathering of Israel," (chapters 15 & 16) the writer has some things to

say about Israelite prophecy and America. He quotes from Jeremiah and Isaiah, but does not explain

fully what biblical passages Mormons say must refer to the New World.

My hazy recollection of past LDS teachings in this regard, seemed to fit the hemispheric model for the

Book of Mormon geography (and ancient spread of Nephite Christianity, etc.)

Has modern LDS teaching on this subject changed in the last few decades.

What biblical passages do the modern LDS leaders say specifically refer to America? Do those passages

refer to a tiny Nephite nation, hidden away in the jungles of Central America? or to something greater?

Uncle Dale

I do not recall him stateing the removal of info from the bible by the great abomidable church. But i do still agree with the analogys he set forth on prophecies quoted from the bible, maybe they are not 100 percent perfect proofs but nonthe less these scripture quotes are very valid and surely mean something that the rest of christanity as of yet has been able to underscore as valid or meaningfull of the biblical prophecies. :P

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