Linguistic Wierdness And The Book Of Mormon

[Olavarria]

Ever since the Prophet Joseph published his translation of Mormon's record both the author and the translation have been the subject of criticism, which is a good thing. Some critics incorrectly assert that Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon and tried to imitate the KJV thus we would naturally find hebraisms in the Book of Mormon.

One way you answer this accusation is by showing hebraisms and egyptian elements which were unknown in 1830 and/or don't appear in the KJV of the Holy Bible, but do appear in the Book of Mormon.

Plural Amplification

In order to amplify or emphasize an idea, biblical Hebrew sometimes uses a noun in the plural when a singular is expected.23 The King James translators translated these Hebrew plural nouns into the English singular. In the following examples from the Old Testament the Hebrew readings appear in brackets.

thy brother's blood [bloods] crieth unto me from the ground (Genesis 4:10)

and strength of salvation [salvations] (Isaiah 33:6)

O Lord God, to whom vengeance [vengeances] belongeth (Psalm 94:1)

Wisdom [wisdoms] crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets (Proverbs 1:20)

the wicked . . . shall be brought forth to the day of wrath [wraths] (Job 21:30)

In many instances the Book of Mormon contains Hebrew-like plural nouns instead of the expected singular:

there shall be bloodsheds (2 Nephi 1:12)

the understandings of the children of men (Mosiah 8:20)

great condescensions unto the children of men (Jacob 4:7)

labor with their mights (Jacob 5:72)

great slaughters with the sword (1 Nephi 12:2)

there were . . . magics (Mormon 1:19)

their cunning and their lyings (Alma 20:13)

mine afflictions were great above all (1 Nephi 15:5)

destructions24 of my people (1 Nephi 15:5)

foolish imaginations of his heart (1 Nephi 2:11)

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/bookscha...=&chapid=63

The number without the noun

Often in biblical Hebrew, an expected noun does not follow a number. For instance, Genesis 45:22 states that Joseph "gave three hundred of silver" to Benjamin, without stating that the three hundred probably refers to pieces of silver. In order to fix what would have been an awkward omission in English, the King James translators supplied the word pieces but italicized it to show that it is not part of the original text. Other biblical examples of the number without the noun include "ten weight of gold" (Genesis 24:22; the KJV adds shekels to its translation: "ten shekels weight of gold"), "he measured six of barley" (Ruth 3:15; the KJV adds measures: "he measured six measures of barley"), and "a captain of fifty with his fifty" (2 Kings 1:9).

In the Book of Mormon, Laman and Lemuel ask, "How is it possible that the Lord will deliver Laban into our hands? Behold, he is a mighty man, and he can command fifty, yea, even he can slay fifty; then why not us?" (1 Nephi 3:31). The number fifty, used twice in this passage, is not followed by a noun. Does fifty refer to men, warriors, princes, commanders of armies? The context does not make this certain. Other Book of Mormon examples include "my little band of two thousand and sixty fought most desperately" (Alma 57:19); "Wherefore, by the words of three, God hath said, I will establish my word" (2 Nephi 11:3); "And it came to pass that there were two hundred, out of my two thousand and sixty" (Alma 57:25).

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/bookscha...=&chapid=63

Hebrew Conditional Sentences

Another helpful indicator of the true origin of the Book of Mormon is the presence of the if-and conditional construction in the 1830 first English printing of the book.54 A little background will help to make the significance of this indicator clear. In English conditional sentences, we typically say things like "If you study hard, you will succeed," and "If you don't exercise and eat well, you will damage your health." The first part of such sentences is the "condition." If that condition is fulfilled, the second part of the sentence will occur.55 In the earliest manuscript of the Book of Mormon, however, a strikingly different kind of conditional sentence occurs several times. Thus, in the 1830 edition, Helaman 12:13â??21 read as follows:

"Yea, and if he saith unto the earth, Move, and it is moved; yea, if he say unto the earth, Thou shalt go back, that it lengthen out the day for many hours, and it is done. . . . And behold, also, if he saith unto the waters of the great deep, Be thou dried up, and it is done. Behold, if he saith unto this mountain, Be thou raised up, and come over and fall upon that city, that it be buried up, and behold it is done. . . . and if the Lord shall say, Be thou accursed, that no man shall find thee from this time henceforth and forever, and behold, no man getteth it henceforth and forever. And behold, if the Lord shall say unto a man, Because of thine iniquities thou shalt be accursed forever, and it shall be done. And if the Lord shall say, Because of thine iniquities, thou shalt be cut off from my presence, and he will cause that it shall be so."

Another, much more familiar passage also read rather differently in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon:

"And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, and he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."

This isn't proper English; its impossible English!!! Yet it is perfectly appropriate Hebrew. It is common in the Hebrew Bible, yet, to the best of my knowledge, it never appears in any biblical translation into English.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publicatio...8&chapid=46

Hebrew names not in the Bible

Aha

Abish

Alma

Sariah

Ammonihah

Chemish

Hagoth

Himni

Isabel

Jarom

Josh

Mathoni

Muloki

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=amJtcw==

Egyptian and Hebrew Names: Going beyond homophonic "sound alike" and into possible knowledge of meanings

Nephi *

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=amJtcw==

Poetic use of Nephi

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=369

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=459

Jershon

Alma27:22 "And it came to pass that the voice of the people came, saying: Behold, we will give up the land of Jershon , which is on the east by the sea, which joins the land Bountiful, which is on the south of the land Bountiful; and this land Jershon is the land which we will give unto our brethren for an inheritance."

Jershon is the toponym for a land given by the Nephites to a group of Lamanites as an inheritance; based on the usual correspondence in the King James Version of j for the Hebrew phoneme /y/, Book of Mormon Jershon could correspond to the Hebrew root yrs meaning "to inherit," thus providing an appropriate play on words in Alma 27:22: "and this land Jershon is the land which we will give unto our brethren for an inheritance." The â??on suffix denots place name.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=amJtcw==

Ziff

Mosiah 11:3,8

3) "And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they possessed, a fifth part of their gold and of their silver , and a fifth part of their ziff and of their copper , and of their brass and their iron ; and a fifth part of their fatlings; and also a fifth part of all their grain. And it came to pass that king Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with fine work of wood, and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copper..."

Some have likened ziff with the Hebrew z

[Arlon James]

eh, he got lucky..........

[Sethbag]

Her Amun, I take it then you're a proponent of the "tight translation" theory?

[Olavarria]

Her Amun, I take it then you're a proponent of the "tight translation" theory?

Hey,

I would except for one major stumbling block:

Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-10

7) Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall eburn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9) But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

10) Now, if you had known this you could have translated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now.

It seems to me that from reading these passages:

1) Joseph didnt look at some random line egyptian characters and "read" them the way you and I would read English. When I read chinese, I dont follow this D&C process.

2) The translators mind was tottally a part of the translation process. Feelings and thoughts had alot to do with how the Nephite record came out in English.

In other words, I have no idea. It might be the case that sometimes there was a "tight translation" and in other times a "modern expansion" of an ancient text. If this is the case, then what came out on paper was actually dependant on how good Joseph was at following and discerning the promptings of the Spirit.

[krose]

The only way these kinds of comparisons can have any validity at all is if you are comparing to Hebrew and Egyptian as they were used 2600 years ago. Do you know what those languages were like then?

[Olavarria]

The only way these kinds of comparisons can have any validity at all is if you are comparing to Hebrew and Egyptian as they were used 2600 years ago. Do you know what those languages were like then?

hmmm, good point. I dont know enough about these languages to say for sure.

The Nephi usage is pretty good though.

Anyone?

[Sethbag]

So do you think, on one of those occasions where Joseph Smith was actually looking at the plates, and they weren't hidden out in the woods or in a box somewhere, he was looking at some character on the Plates, and said hey, God, does this mean shazbat? <gets stupor of thought> Ok, does it mean Yoyo? <stupor> Ok, how about Rice? <stupor> Giraffe? <stupor> Zippidy Zee? <stupor> Frederick? <stupor> Squash? <stupor>.

Umm, how about sheum? <burning in the bosom>

Woohoo, I got one right! It was sheum!

Ok, starting out with no knowledge of Egyptian, Hebrew, Akkadian, or anything else, how do you suppose that the "you ask me first, and I'll tell you if you're right or wrong" method could lead Joseph to a non-English word like "sheum"? Or curelom, or cumom?

It's hard to argue that such words would come to Joseph this way, because he didn't even know those words (or they hadn't been invented yet, but were about to be), so how could he have known to ask if they were right? It's hard to get away from the notion that such words would have appeared, verbatim, on the ethereal parchment displayed over the stone in the hat. Which leads again to the question, if sheum is just some word for grain, why wouldn't God just say grain?

[Danzo]

So do you think, on one of those occasions where Joseph Smith was actually looking at the plates, and they weren't hidden out in the woods or in a box somewhere, he was looking at some character on the Plates, and said hey, God, does this mean shazbat?

We really do not know how Joseph Smith came up with the word sheum. As far as I know, he hasn't explained how he got it, and no one else claims to have heard him make it up. I don't think it would have mattered anyway. You do not believe in Prophecy or revelation from God, so no explaination would work for you.

However, for someone who believes, the meaning of the word sheum can offer better understanding toward the meaning of these and other passages.

[Olavarria]

So do you think, on one of those occasions where Joseph Smith was actually looking at the plates, and they weren't hidden out in the woods or in a box somewhere, he was looking at some character on the Plates, and said hey, God, does this mean shazbat? <gets stupor of thought> Ok, does it mean Yoyo? <stupor> Ok, how about Rice? <stupor> Giraffe? <stupor> Zippidy Zee? <stupor> Frederick? <stupor> Squash? <stupor>.

Umm, how about sheum? <burning in the bosom>

Woohoo, I got one right! It was sheum!

Ok, starting out with no knowledge of Egyptian, Hebrew, Akkadian, or anything else, how do you suppose that the "you ask me first, and I'll tell you if you're right or wrong" method could lead Joseph to a non-English word like "sheum"? Or curelom, or cumom?

It's hard to argue that such words would come to Joseph this way, because he didn't even know those words (or they hadn't been invented yet, but were about to be), so how could he have known to ask if they were right? It's hard to get away from the notion that such words would have appeared, verbatim, on the ethereal parchment displayed over the stone in the hat. Which leads again to the question, if sheum is just some word for grain, why wouldn't God just say grain?

Like I said, I have no idea.

[Luigi]

Plural Amplification

In order to amplify or emphasize an idea, biblical Hebrew sometimes uses a noun in the plural when a singular is expected.23 The King James translators translated these Hebrew plural nouns into the English singular. In the following examples from the Old Testament the Hebrew readings appear in brackets.

thy brother's blood [bloods] crieth unto me from the ground (Genesis 4:10)

and strength of salvation [salvations] (Isaiah 33:6)

O Lord God, to whom vengeance [vengeances] belongeth (Psalm 94:1)

Wisdom [wisdoms] crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets (Proverbs 1:20)

the wicked . . . shall be brought forth to the day of wrath [wraths] (Job 21:30)

In many instances the Book of Mormon contains Hebrew-like plural nouns instead of the expected singular:

there shall be bloodsheds (2 Nephi 1:12)

the understandings of the children of men (Mosiah 8:20)

great condescensions unto the children of men (Jacob 4:7)

labor with their mights (Jacob 5:72)

great slaughters with the sword (1 Nephi 12:2)

there were . . . magics (Mormon 1:19)

their cunning and their lyings (Alma 20:13)

mine afflictions were great above all (1 Nephi 15:5)

destructions24 of my people (1 Nephi 15:5)

foolish imaginations of his heart (1 Nephi 2:11)

Imaginations is actually in the Bible and understandings, mights, and lyings are all in D&C, just FYI.

[John Larsen]

thy brother's blood [bloods] crieth unto me from the ground (Genesis 4:10)

and strength of salvation [salvations] (Isaiah 33:6)

O Lord God, to whom vengeance [vengeances] belongeth (Psalm 94:1)

Wisdom [wisdoms] crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets (Proverbs 1:20)

the wicked . . . shall be brought forth to the day of wrath [wraths] (Job 21:30)

In many instances the Book of Mormon contains Hebrew-like plural nouns instead of the expected singular:

there shall be bloodsheds (2 Nephi 1:12)

the understandings of the children of men (Mosiah 8:20)

great condescensions unto the children of men (Jacob 4:7)

labor with their mights (Jacob 5:72)

great slaughters with the sword (1 Nephi 12:2)

there were . . . magics (Mormon 1:19)

their cunning and their lyings (Alma 20:13)

mine afflictions were great above all (1 Nephi 15:5)

destructions24 of my people (1 Nephi 15:5)

foolish imaginations of his heart (1 Nephi 2:11)

It might be that Joseph had a fondness for pluralizing nouns.

From Joseph's Journal (in Joseph's hand writing):

"Oh Lord deliver thy servent out of temtations and fill his heart with wisdom and understanding" (p.5)

"from the 13th utill this date nothing of note has transprired since the great sign in the heavins" (p.11)

"I have learned in my travels that man is trecheous and selfish" (p.12)

"... and can <gain> the friendship of his hearrers very quick" (p.12)

Jessee, Dean, The Papers of Joseph Smith, v 2 Deseret Book

[John Larsen]

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/bookscha...=&chapid=63

The number without the noun

Often in biblical Hebrew, an expected noun does not follow a number. For instance, Genesis 45:22 states that Joseph "gave three hundred of silver" to Benjamin, without stating that the three hundred probably refers to pieces of silver. In order to fix what would have been an awkward omission in English, the King James translators supplied the word pieces but italicized it to show that it is not part of the original text. Other biblical examples of the number without the noun include "ten weight of gold" (Genesis 24:22; the KJV adds shekels to its translation: "ten shekels weight of gold"), "he measured six of barley" (Ruth 3:15; the KJV adds measures: "he measured six measures of barley"), and "a captain of fifty with his fifty" (2 Kings 1:9).

In the Book of Mormon, Laman and Lemuel ask, "How is it possible that the Lord will deliver Laban into our hands? Behold, he is a mighty man, and he can command fifty, yea, even he can slay fifty; then why not us?" (1 Nephi 3:31). The number fifty, used twice in this passage, is not followed by a noun. Does fifty refer to men, warriors, princes, commanders of armies? The context does not make this certain. Other Book of Mormon examples include "my little band of two thousand and sixty fought most desperately" (Alma 57:19); "Wherefore, by the words of three, God hath said, I will establish my word" (2 Nephi 11:3); "And it came to pass that there were two hundred, out of my two thousand and sixty" (Alma 57:25).

This is very common in the bible. Here are some examples:

Mark 6

39 And he commanded them to make all sit down by companies upon the green grass.

40 And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties.

Mark 4

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

Acts 23

23 And he called unto him two centurions, saying, Make ready two hundred soldiers to go to Caesarea, and horsemen threescore and ten, and spearmen two hundred, at the third hour of the night;

Could it be that Joseph was merely mimicking the style of the Bible?

[John Larsen]

Hebrew names not in the Bible /Hebrew Names in the Bible

Aha/Ahaz

Abish/Achish

Alma/Almug

Sariah/sarai

Ammonihah/Ammon

Chemish/Chemosh

Hagoth/Hagar

Himni/Haggai

Isabel/Jezebel

Jarom/Joram

Josh/Joshua

Mathoni/Malachi

Muloki/Molech

It is not hard to see that transplanting a couple of letters or adding special endings like â??hah or â??i and you have a whole set of new names very similar to Hebrew words accessible by Joseph.

[Olavarria]

Imaginations is actually in the Bible

good point

and understandings, mights, and lyings are all in D&C, just FYI.

Perhaps he was imitating the style of the BoM.

Could it be that Joseph was merely mimicking the style of the Bible?

Mark 6, sounds alot how we speak today.

Acts 23 is irrelavent since it tells you x number of what

Mark 4 tells you x number of what, fruit.

Whereas the BoM doesnt. Context supplies the meaning.

It might be that Joseph had a fondness for pluralizing nouns.

From Joseph's Journal (in Joseph's hand writing):

"Oh Lord deliver thy servent out of temtations and fill his heart with wisdom and understanding" (p.5)

"from the 13th utill this date nothing of note has transprired since the great sign in the heavins" (p.11)

"I have learned in my travels that man is trecheous and selfish" (p.12)

"... and can <gain> the friendship of his hearrers very quick" (p.12)

All of these plural forms sound like day to day,modern english pluralization to me.

However labor with their mights (Jacob 5:72), there shall be bloodsheds (2 Nephi 1:12), there were . . . magics (Mormon 1:19),their cunning and their lyings (Alma 20:13) make for very bad english.

Hebrew names not in the Bible /Hebrew Names in the Bible

Aha/Ahaz

Abish/Achish

Alma/Almug

Sariah/sarai

Ammonihah/Ammon

Chemish/Chemosh

Hagoth/Hagar

Himni/Haggai

Isabel/Jezebel

Jarom/Joram

Josh/Joshua

Mathoni/Malachi

Muloki/Molech

I think you are missing the point. These non-biblical names are hebrew names. The Book of Mormon was the first book available in modern times to apply them to hebrews. Himni/Haggai? Mathoni/Malachi?

Then again, my first name Pedro isnt derived from the Greek Petros. It is simply pedometer, minus the meter, plus a 'r' between the 'd' and the 'o'. Like so pedometer-->pedo--->pedro.

My ex-girlfriends name Amy is actually Armando--->Arm---->Am----->Amy

Which sounds closer, your matches or:

Hebrew names not in the Bible /Hebrew Names in the Book of Mormon

Aha/Aha

Abish/Abish

Alma/Alma Both men, were as in latin languages Alma is a woman's name

Sariah/Sariah Both women, were as in the Bible Sarai is a man's name

Ammonihah/Ammonihah

Mathoni/Mathoni

Read the artcile, its really good.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=amJtcw==

Hel. 16: 16

16 Some things they may have guessed right, among so many; but behold, we know that all these great and marvelous works cannot come to pass, of which has been spoken.

[Olavarria]

Egyptian and Hebrew Names: Going beyond homophonic "sound alike" and into possible knowledge of meanings

Nephi *

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=amJtcw==

Poetic use of Nephi

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=369

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=insights&id=459

Jershon

Alma27:22 "And it came to pass that the voice of the people came, saying: Behold, we will give up the land of Jershon , which is on the east by the sea, which joins the land Bountiful, which is on the south of the land Bountiful; and this land Jershon is the land which we will give unto our brethren for an inheritance."

Jershon is the toponym for a land given by the Nephites to a group of Lamanites as an inheritance; based on the usual correspondence in the King James Version of j for the Hebrew phoneme /y/, Book of Mormon Jershon could correspond to the Hebrew root yrs meaning "to inherit," thus providing an appropriate play on words in Alma 27:22: "and this land Jershon is the land which we will give unto our brethren for an inheritance." The â??on suffix denots place name.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?fi...p;type=amJtcw==

Ziff

Mosiah 11:3,8

3) "And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they possessed, a fifth part of their gold and of their silver , and a fifth part of their ziff and of their copper , and of their brass and their iron ; and a fifth part of their fatlings; and also a fifth part of all their grain. And it came to pass that king Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with fine work of wood, and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copper..."

Some have likened ziff with the Hebrew z