Farms Review And Mother In Heaven.

[BCSpace]

Genesis 5:1-3-----shows God a married couple?

Yep.

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Genesis 5:1-3

No ligetimate Biblical scholar even remotly suggest such a thing.

So who was created in the image of God then? The male or the female? Or is God both male and female?

Btw. Scholarship does not legitimate doctrine make (2 Peter 1:20) though I think you'd best familiarize yourself with the notion of the 'divine feminine' before making such a claim.

[Ron Beron]

'BCSpace' writes,

QUOTEI am 100% certain they are not human. To be such would indicate that they would have been Homo Sapien from this planet. Having been flesh and blood, yes, but not human flesh and blood.

That is also basic LDS doctrine (Gospel Principles chapter 47)

The exact quote from JS in that chapter is, "God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth,

the same as Jesus Christ himself didâ?. This states that God dwelt on an earth (not this one, but a celestial orb different from this). Later JS states that God was once a man. This is certainly poetic license, but the core meaning was that God was once a sentient being of some kind. The commonality between us and God is not our physicality, but our spirits.

I think that we are certainly arguing scientific semantics here. Surely you are not arguing that God et al was a former resident of this earth, are you? If He was a resident here then he would be human. If a being of another planet then he would not be human ergo Homo Sapien.

QUOTEIt doesn't need to be expressly stated for it to be doctrine though it is in several places such as the hymn "O My Father", preisthood lessons on the origin of man, and articles such as this....

QUOTEI think there are differing levels of doctrine.

Obfuscation. Doctrine is doctrine.

I disagree. Certainly there are some doctrines which the church wishes not to announce and for good reason. For example, in the case of worship of a Heavenly mother Gordon B. Hinckley and James E. Faust argued that we are NOT to do so, "â??for the Father of our spirits is the head of His household,â? and â??and His wives and children are required to yield the most perfect obedience to their great Head. It is lawful for the children to worship the King of heaven, but not the `Queen of heaven.'. . . Jesus prayed to His father, and taught His disciples to do likewise; but we are nowhere taught that Jesus prayed to His Heavenly Mother.â?

And later in 1991 President Hinckley stated in a meeting of regional representatives that, â??here and there, prayers have been offered to our Mother in Heaven.â? He had searched and found â??nowhere in the Standard Works an account where Jesus prayed other than to His Father in Heaven. . . . I have looked in vain for any instance . . . [of] `a prayer to our Mother in Heaven.'â? He said he â??consider it inappropriate for anyone in the Church to pray to our Mother in Heavenâ?. President Hinckley further admonishes regional reps to â??counsel priesthood leaders to be on the alert for the use of this expression and to make correction where necessary. Such correction can be handled in a discreet and inoffensive way. But it should be firm and without equivocation.â?

My argument is that the doctrine of a Mother in Heaven, while not "officially" sanctioned by the church is that it was based on theological speculation of early female members of the church. Other better positioned leaders of the church have also agreed with their beliefs. While the church officially promotes the doctrine of Heavenly Parents (ala the Proclamation) it does not condone a individualized worship of a Heavenly Mother. As President Hinckley has stated that to do so would constitute a personal apostasy.

QUOTEShall I go on with the quotes?

QUOTEThe quotes you have given, while informational, are not necessarily canon/doctrine,

They are all official doctrine according to the LDS Church's own statements. Those statements expressly separate doctrine from having to be canon.

I'm sorry, but they are not official doctrine since official means canon. Comments by general authorities and quotes from church materials even if said in General Conference are not to considered canonical doctrine, but unofficial doctrine otherwise we would accept the Journal of Discourses as doctrine.

QUOTEOh, it's quite the opposite as hopefully you now can see. By your own logic, the Church itself teaches and advocates a dangerous and schismatic doctrine.

QUOTEYou miss my point; we do not specifically worship a mother in heaven because we get into the polytheistic problems of pre-exilic Israel. We worship a Heavenly Father NOT a Heavenly Mother. To do otherwise is dangerous and schismatic.

That was not the point in the first place which was that MIH is LDS doctrine. Now you say it is doctrine, contrary to your previous posts and you are also now changing the subject as if it were the original point.

It is entirely apropos to consider this. While we accept the doctrine of Heavenly Parents we do not single out a Mother in Heaven because the tendency would be for some members of the church to worship her exclusively(I have actually observed this once when a sister began her prayer with "Our mother in heaven...). This is not the intent or desire of the leadership of the church. Rather, members need to realize that we worship our Heavenly Father exclusive of a Heavenly Mother, but accept the idea of a Heavenly Mother as part of the role of a parent in heaven. Further, there wasn't any obfuscation on my part in the acceptance of a Heavenly Mother just the official recognition of such.

[Ron Beron]

What specific verses?

"He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion." Jer. 10:12

"O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches." Ps. 104:24

"The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens." Prov. 3:19From a series of papyrus from the Jewish colony in Elephantine in Egypt.

QUOTEâ??From heaven the peoples are favored; Wisdom is of te gods. Indeed, she precious tot he gods; her kingdom is eternal She has been established by Shamayn; yes, the Holy Lord has exalted herâ?From a reading in the Assyrian texts she is connected with their god, Baal Shamayn. In Kottsieperâ??s transaction of the above Wisdom is set as the co-ruler with El,

QUOTEâ??...Among the gods, too, she is honored; she shares with her lord the rulership. In heaven is she established, yea, the lord of the holy ones has exalted her.â? She is shown in Hellenistic writings in the Book of Wisdom as an equivalent of Isis and later for the Hellenistic deity, Sophia.

QUOTE

â?? 3 She adds to nobility the splendor of companionship with God; even the LORD of all loved her. 4 For she is instructress in the understanding of God, the selector of his works. 5 And if riches be a desirable possession in life, what is more rich than Wisdom, who produces all things? 6 And if prudence renders service, who in the world is a better craftsman than she?

7 Or if one loves justice, the fruits of her works are virtues; For she teaches moderation and prudence, justice and fortitude, and nothing in life is more useful for men than these. 8 Or again, if one yearns for copious learning, she knows the things of old, and infers those yet to come. She understands the turns of phrases and the solutions of riddles; signs and wonders she knows in advance and the outcome of times and ages. 9 So I determined to take her to live with me, knowing that she would be my counselor while all was well, and my comfort in care and grief.â?

In Proverbs 1-9 she is discussed more fully as the daughter of God.

In other parts of the Proverbs she is identified with the scribes, guide to kings and state officials, and as teacher of wisdom.

Within Proverbs there are some remarkable accounts of Wisdom being â??begottenâ? by the Father

QUOTEProverbs 8:22,23The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

QUOTESirach 24:3 "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High, and covered the earth like a mist.

"From eternity, in the beginning, He created me." Sir. 24:9

QUOTEProv. 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?QUOTEProv. 8:27-30 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;And having a relationship with humans

QUOTEvs. 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.She was later recast as Sophia and given a different persona. According to Neoplatonic literature and specifically Philo of Alexandria she was treated as Godâ??s hypostasis or divine emanation.

QUOTE"Wisdom is older than the creation...of the whole universe." Philo, On the Virtues 62

"And who is to be considered the daughter of God but Wisdom, who is the firstborn mother of all things." Philo, Questions in Genesis 4:97

The concept of wisdom is mentioned constantly in NT writings such as

QUOTEI Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

I Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Eph. 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Col. 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

I

[Ron Beron]

'BCSpace' writes,

Genesis 5:1-3 shows that the image of God is a married couple.

1. This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2. Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

It is one thing to extrapolate on the teachings of current church doctrine, but it is entirely different when placing those teachings into OT literature. Be very careful when extrapolating a belief that God had a wife from comments made in the OT. The OT treatment of God and a consort are not easily rendered and are best controversial. I attended a conference yesterday which discussed this very subject. The key term used by all participants was treading lightly on this subject because there isn't firm consensus. Secondly, the Hebrew word for likeness is tselem which implies a shadowing. Therefore, we are created as but a shadow of God and not in his "exact" likeness. Further to be created in the likeness of God entails more than just being in his physical likeness. It also includes an ability to rationally see our selveselves as something important to God. It includes an ability ot make moral and rational choices. It gives us the ability of artistic creativity and a capacity to love others. Finally, it gives us a desire to be more like Him; a spiritual being.

[leblonDRZ]

Well, by worshiping the Father, and praying for him, we are also in communication with Heavenly Mother(s). Since all celestial beings in His house have the same purpose and goals, then they are all working for the same good.

Therefore there is no need to pray for anyone else in Heaven than Heavenly Father.

Besides, there could be more than one Mother, then which one would you pick to pray to

We also know that God does not work alone but through His people, including angels, which we could consider demi-gods since they have the power through God to perform tasks, such as the creation of this Earth.

[Olavarria]

It seems that the reality of Heavenly Mother is too much for some too take.

I wonder what else the Lord has willingly kept from us on account of our collective inability to recieve.