Nephi And Moses' Parting Of The Waters

[consiglieri]

It seems like an important point may have been made and is subsequently being lost in a back-and-forth I may have initiated with the Jaws quote.

Let's see if I can summarize:

The Book of Mormon contains a variant on the Exodus story, with Moses speaking to the water in order to divide it rather than smiting it with his rod as in the Bible.

In Legends of the Jews by Ginzberg, there is an account of Moses speaking to the water in order to get it to divide.

This is interesting, and perhaps remarkable.

But of course, now come the anticipated rejoinders of coincidence or cribbing.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Cold Steel]

The other day I noticed what to me at least is a somewhat peculiar fact about it. Part of this speech runs as follows: " ...let us go up; let us be strong like unto Moses. For he truly spake unto the waters of the Red Sea and they divided hither and thither...." Now, for the first time I noticed that I didn't recall from the account in Exodus that Moses "spake unto the waters." And in fact in Exodus Moses does not do so. He "stretches out his hand" over the waters in accord with instructions from the Lord.

Nephi's comments may be based on a number of considerations, the most likely being his knowledge of how the priesthood works. Latter-day Saints know that men are given the priesthood as a means of acting in God's name. Moses undoubtedly addressed the waters and commanded them to part through the priesthood he bore, and which had been given to him by his father-in-law, Jethro. One can't assume that Exodus, or any other account is entirely complete.

Regarding Moses' passage through the Reed Sea, I find the Nephi Project's video, In the Search for the Real Mount Sinai, to be quite compelling. George Potter and his people believe that the real Sinai is not the mountain towering over St. Catherine's monestary, but in Saudi Arabia very near the Gulf of Aqaba, where they believe Moses and the Israelites passed through. This would place it in the land of Midian, where Moses saw the burning bush. They believe al-Lawz is the actual Sinai.

"Since Jethroâ??s home in the valley where the major settlements existed was on the west side of the mountain," Potter says, "the backside would be the side of the mountain away from Jethroâ??s home and the town of Midian."

Paul writes that Sinai is in Arabia (the other candidates are in Egypt). Jethro also took his leave to visit Midian while Moses and the Israelites were camped at its base. This would have been impractical had it been in the Sinai Peninsula, in Egypt. Says Potter: "What is most impressive about the only Arabian mount Sinai candidate are the many archeological artifacts that are found at its base. The mountain is found in a remote place, yet there are man made artifacts that suggest it is mount Sinai. These include what Williams and Cornuke believed to be the altar of Moses, eleven piles of stones that are found next to the mountain â?? these seem to form â??boundary markers, a natural rock formation which has had a Petra style high-place-altar cut in its top and which is surrounded with petroglyphs of Egyptian stylized calves (the altar of the golden calve), and semi-buried marble pillars which have been broken in pieces. There is also a dried brook bed that runs next to the altar and a habitable cave that overlooks the archeological monuments." Elijah, if you'll recall, lived in the cave on Sinai and was fed by ravens (Arabs).

Regarding the crossing, Potter notes: "Indeed, the great depth of the Red Sea and its Gulf Aqaba is what makes The Strait of Tiran so interesting as the crossing place of the Exodus. It is only there that an underwater mountain ranges runs between the Sinai Peninsula (Egyptian side) and Midian on the Arabian side. The entire party of Israel crossed the Red Sea in one night, which means that this underwater mountain range is the only feasible place for such a crossing of the Red Sea proper. Any other place would mean that the body of Israel, upwards of a million people climbed down shear cliffs some 6,000 feet, and then climbed up cliff faces on the opposite side all within twelve hours."

He adds:

"In October of 2000, Timothy Sedor, my wife Susan and I retraced the entire exodus from Tanis in Egypt to Midian. We also visited each of the five other places where the children of Israel allegedly crossed the Red Sea or Reed Sea. We also visited the alleged campsites and mount of Moses candidates in the Sinai Peninsula. From my research and visits to these alternative sites, I think the Bible is clear, and so are the artifacts, oral traditions, geographical features of Midian. Mount Sinai is in Arabia, and the trail of the Exodus leads straight to it. We have recently documented our research on our film In Search of the Real Mount Sinai, available at http://www.nephiproject.com."

Note: The first article of his three-part series can be found here.

Nephi Project version of the exodus (right).

Possible Exodus Routes. In Black is the traditional

Exodus Routes as agreed on by Biblical scholars,

hstorians, and geologists. Other possible Exodus

routes are in Pink and Green.

[structurecop]

Regarding the crossing, Potter notes: "Indeed, the great depth of the Red Sea and its Gulf Aqaba is what makes The Strait of Tiran so interesting as the crossing place of the Exodus.

No way. You can't approach Aqaba from the sea. The 12-inch Turkish guns would tear the Israelites to pieces.

[Doctor Steuss]

No way. You can't approach Aqaba from the sea. The 12-inch Turkish guns would tear the Israelites to pieces.

Better the guns than a flaming sword...

[Strindberg]

It seems like an important point may have been made and is subsequently being lost in a back-and-forth I may have initiated with the Jaws quote.

Let's see if I can summarize:

The Book of Mormon contains a variant on the Exodus story, with Moses speaking to the water in order to divide it rather than smiting it with his rod as in the Bible.

In Legends of the Jews by Ginzberg, there is an account of Moses speaking to the water in order to get it to divide.

This is interesting, and perhaps remarkable.

But of course, now come the anticipated rejoinders of coincidence or cribbing.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Nephi's comments may be based on a number of considerations, the most likely being his knowledge of how the priesthood works.

Thanks for rescuing the main point of this thread from the Jaws of death and hell. -- Really, though, I guess it's hard to say how important it is.

As for knowledge of how the Priesthood works, however, it does seem to accord with a view of priesthood power being bound up with the faith of a given individual and that particular individual's word(s) being essential to the action (cause and effect). For example, Jacob (4:6) " . . . we truly can command in the name of Jesus and the very trees obey us, or the mountains, or the waves of the sea." (One also could compare 3 Nephi 28:20) And this is not quite the sense one gets in the crossing the Red Sea episode in Exodus.

[structurecop]

Better the guns than a flaming sword...

The only way is by traveling over the Sun's Anvil which is just a little less painful than a flaming sword.

[grego]

For further consideration, there are also the speech of Nephi to his brothers (1 Nephi 17) ("I could command the sea"), Enoch (Moses 7:13) speaking the word of the Lord and rivers turning, and JST Genesis 14:30, where the priesthood having power to divide the seas.

[consiglieri]

To Strindberg and Nevo,

Because I think this subject is of potential interest to students of the Book of Mormon, I submitted a synopsis of this thread to FARMS for consideration, and it looks like there may be some interest in publishing these findings in an upcoming newsletter.

Strindberg is the one who made the initial observation of the variant in the BOM text.

Nevo came up with the parallel in Legends of the Jews.

I think it only fair to submit your names to FARMS to be included if they should choose to publish.

If that is something you would like, please PM me with your actual names and I will make sure that information is forwarded to FARMS.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[structurecop]

I think it only fair to submit your names to FARMS to be included if they should choose to publish.

What, my name doesn't get published because all I added was sarcasm and doubt?

[Doctor Steuss]

What, my name doesn't get published because all I added was sarcasm and doubt?

That's for Sunstone.

[structurecop]

That's for Sunstone.

Brilliant!

[consiglieri]

What, my name doesn't get published because all I added was sarcasm and doubt?

No, your name gets published because you have apparently abdicated your post as Tyler of the MCE.

You are so AWOL, man!

--Consiglieri

[structurecop]

No, your name gets published because you have apparently abdicated your post as Tyler of the MCE.

You are so AWOL, man!

--Consiglieri

The Hebrew in my new special title translates "defender and invisible," a nod to my role as Tyler.

[paulhadik]

Wyatt was a fraud. I remember one of his sons stating they placed bicycle wheels under the water and took pictures of them. He was our EV version of Hoffman without the attitude....

And Uncle Dale in your willingness to toss out anything smacking of a miracle you misread the Jonah story. There is no evidence in the NT that people took the story as only symbolic. The OT story is fairly clear that Jonah died and was resurrected

[grego]

Another "Moses" thing from the BoM:

Helaman 8:11 Therefore he was constrained to speak more unto them saying: Behold, my brethren, have ye not read that God gave power unto one man, even Moses, to smite upon the waters of the Red Sea, and they parted hither and thither, insomuch that the Israelites, who were our fathers, came through upon dry ground, and the waters closed upon the armies of the Egyptians and swallowed them up?

-=-=-=

Wyatt was a fraud. I remember one of his sons stating they placed bicycle wheels under the water and took pictures of them. He was our EV version of Hoffman without the attitude....

So either that, or his one son was a fraud? Did they cover them with coral, etc., and plant them really far down under? Just curious, eh.