Early Christian Theosis Quotes

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

If a person is a "partaker" then by defination then that person CAN NOT be omnipotence, omnipotence is about unlimited pwer. By act of partaking that person is limited.

I disagree. I can FULLY partake of God's Glory because God FULLY shares it with not only His Son, but al the Bene Elohim, that is Sons of God. That's the power of the AT-ONE-MENT.......... Father I pray that they will be ONE in you and you are in me, and I ain them, and they in us. WE ALL CAN BE ONE with Christ IN God...... That's John 17. He doesn't say hey pop, can we at least share maybe say ummmmm, 67% of the Glory with em all? He says ALL of His disciples are to be ONE with Him.

[Lachoneus]

Lachoneus,

Matt 5:48 is talking about being perfect, being perfect is about being holy and doing the will of the Father. The Father is omnipotent or has unlimited power. In scripture omnipotence is different than perfection.

The Greek word is teleios, which means "1) brought to its end, finished 2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness 3) perfect 4) that which is perfect 4a) consummate human integrity and virtue 4b) of men 4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature." The Latin perfectus, which translates teleios in the Vulgate, means "complete" or "thoroughly done." Being "perfect," therefore, includes the attributes of being holy and doing the will of the Father, but is not limited to such attributes. It also means to become a completely mature grown-up, just like Our Father, possessing all His attributes. We are not complete if we lack any of His attributes, including omnipotence.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

I disagree. I can FULLY partake of God's Glory because God FULLY shares it with not only His Son, but al the Bene Elohim, that is Sons of God. That's the power of the AT-ONE-MENT..........

The atonement is about redemption ... How can it be FULL if it is shared with all the other adopted Sons?

Father I pray that they will be ONE in you and you are in me, and I ain them, and they in us. WE ALL CAN BE ONE with Christ IN God..That's John 17.

We can be "one spirit" because we are joined unto the Lord, we are members of Christ ... that's 1Cor 6:15-19.

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

It also means to become a completely mature grown-up, just like Our Father, possessing all His attributes. We are not complete if we lack any of His attributes, including omnipotence.

If every adopted Son of God has the attributed of being omnipotence then that means then there is NO omnipotence in other words there is NO "ruler of all" if everybody is the "ruler of all". The lexicon says that omnipotent is "ruler of all". The Bible says the Father is omnipotent (Rev 19:6).

[LifeOnaPlate]

The atonement is perfect because it creates perfection.

[Lachoneus]

If every adopted Son of God has the attributed of being omnipotence then that means then there is NO omnipotence in other words there is NO "ruler of all" if everybody is the "ruler of all". The lexicon says that omnipotent is "ruler of all". The Bible says the Father is omnipotent (Rev 19:6).

The word "omnipotent" means "every power." An omnipotent being, therefore, is a being that possesses every power. There is nothing about the word "omnipotent" that limits the possible number of beings that can possess every power. In fact, we cannot be complete even as Our Father is complete unless we have all His attributes, including omnipotence.

BTW, Revelation 19:6 is speaking of Christ, not the Father. Isn't it interesting that the only being for whom the word â??omnipotentâ? is used in the entire Bible is the Son, not the Father (notice verses 2, 7-9, 11-13).

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

The word "omnipotent" means "every power." An omnipotent being, therefore, is a being that possesses every power. There is nothing about the word "omnipotent" that limits the possible number of beings that can possess every power.

Who is the ruler if everyone possess the power to rule?

BTW, Revelation 19:6 is speaking of Christ, not the Father. Isn't it interesting that the only being for whom the word â??omnipotentâ? is used in the entire Bible is the Son, not the Father (notice verses 2, 7-9, 11-13).

Revelation 19:6 is clearly speaking of the Father, the Father is on the throne, he is the one that has the power to rule, he is the Almighty.

Rev.22

[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev.19

[1] And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

[4] And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev.21

[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Lachoneus,

Who is the ruler if everyone possess the power to rule?

God.

[Lachoneus]

Who is the ruler if everyone possess the power to rule?

"to us there is but one God, the Father," (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Revelation 19:6 is clearly speaking of the Father, the Father is on the throne, he is the one that has the power to rule, he is the Almighty.

Rev.22

[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev.19

[1] And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

[4] And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev.21

[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Chapters 21 and 22 do not identify the individual in Rev 19:6. For that we must look at Chapter 19.

Notice that in Rev 19:7 you yourself have underlined the phrase "the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." The Lamb is the Son, not the Father. The Lamb is "the Lord God omnipotent" in verse 6 also.

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

"to us there is but one God, the Father," (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Your not making sense ... earlier you said all the Sons of God have every power ... every power would include the power to rule ... if everyone is ruling then there is no one ruling.

Chapters 21 and 22 do not identify the individual in Rev 19:6. For that we must look at Chapter 19.

Notice that in Rev 19:7 you yourself have underlined the phrase "the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." The Lamb is the Son, not the Father. The Lamb is "the Lord God omnipotent" in verse 6 also.

The individual is the Father, the whole of revelation is consistent that the Lord God is the Father and the Son is the Lamb.

Rev 19:1 says "our God" ... our God is the the Father.

Rev 19:4 says "worshipped God" ... we worship the Father

Rev 19:4 says "God that sat on the throne" .. the Father is on the throne.

[johnny]

LifeOnaPlate,

> Who is the ruler if everyone possess the power to rule?

God.

From a Mormon viewpoint ... does God have a ruler ... since some Mormons believe that the Mormon God has a God?

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

The atonement is about redemption ...

PRECISELY. Redemption from our limitations because of the Fall of Adam. Redemption from death, limited abilities, shortsightedness, redemption from hell, redemption from being merely human attaining our fullest Divine potential, receiving all that the Father has as Joint-Heirs with Christ. I couldn't possibly agree with you more.

How can it be FULL if it is shared with all the other adopted Sons?

That isn't my worry. I know that is the promise, and I trust that omnipotent Father certainly has a way. Why do you seek to limit his Love, ability, and desire fror the maximum good for all of us his children? Just who do you think you are limiting God in the way that you do?

[Jersey Girl]

Johnny,

Is there only one definition of "omnipotent"? You mentioned using a lexicon. Could you briefly explain (I know you have other posts to deal with here that are far more important than this) how you arrive at "omnipotent=ruler of all"?

Thanks,

JG

[e=mc2]

Jersey Girl has a good request here. I don't even think the term omniscient or even omnipresent is in the Bible is it?

[Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl has a good request here. I don't even think the term omniscient or even omnipresent is in the Bible is it?

I love what I've read of this thread so far, though I haven't read all of the replies. I don't see where Johnny explains the lexicon in connection to the word "omnipotent" and no, I don't think this is coming directly from the Bible. That's why I want to know.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

PRECISELY. Redemption from our limitations because of the Fall of Adam. Redemption from death, limited abilities, shortsightedness, redemption from hell, redemption from being merely human attaining our fullest Divine potential, receiving all that the Father has as Joint-Heirs with Christ. I couldn't possibly agree with you more.

When your reach your "fullest Divine potential" will you be a ruler of all ... who will you be ruling ... will it be other men?

That isn't my worry. I know that is the promise, and I trust that omnipotent Father certainly has a way. Why do you seek to limit his Love, ability, and desire fror the maximum good for all of us his children? Just who do you think you are limiting God in the way that you do?

I am not seeking to limit ... God created man with limitations, men will always be dependent on God. God on the other hand is not dependent on anyone because he is omnipotent.

[johnny]

Jersey Girl,

Is there only one definition of "omnipotent"? You mentioned using a lexicon. Could you briefly explain (I know you have other posts to deal with here that are far more important than this) how you arrive at "omnipotent=ruler of all"?

I arrived at it by using the lexicon below ... for Rev 19:6 it says "1) he who holds sway over all things; 2) the ruler of all; 3) almighty: God"

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Rev.19

[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

God created man with limitations,

Not according to our boy Irenaeus he didn't. The limitation came because of the fall of Adam. Before that, everything God made was pronounced "ki tov," and "ki tov meod," VERY GOOD..............

Johnny:

When your reach your "fullest Divine potential" will you be a ruler of all ... who will you be ruling ... will it be other men?

I will be a joint-heir with Christ IN God, as the Bible teaches, and all that that implies. You tell me what Christ can do, and who and what he is, and that will be our future potential limitation. Of that I stand firmly in the faith of Jesus Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

men will always be dependent on God. God on the other hand is not dependent on anyone because he is omnipotent.

Can God make mankind and womankind omnipotent? Can we share (that damnable word apparently you really love to ignore the implications of - JOINT-HEIRS) what God is and has? Can He *NOT* do this? Is there any reason why he would not want to considering his LOVE is also infinite?

[johnny]

e=mc2,

Not according to our boy Irenaeus he didn't. The limitation came because of the fall of Adam. Before that, everything God made was pronounced "ki tov," and "ki tov meod," VERY GOOD..............

Irenaeus talks about the limitations below ... Irenaeus teaches that if you have unlimited gods then none of them is God.

Irenaeus

5. These things, then, being so, each deity will be contented with his own possessions, and will not be moved with any curiosity respecting the affairs of others; otherwise he would be unjust, and rapacious, and would cease to be what God is. Each creation, too, will glorify its own maker, and will be contented with him, not knowing any other; otherwise it would most justly be deemed an apostate by all the others, and would receive a richly-deserved punishment. For it must be either that there is one Being who contains all things, and formed in His own territory all those things which have been created, according to His own will; or, again, that there are numerous unlimited creators and gods, who begin from each other, and end in each other on every side; and it will then be necessary to allow that all the rest are contained from without by some one who is greater, and that they are each of them shut up within their own territory, and remain in it. No one of them all, therefore, is God. For there will be [much] wanting to every one of them, possessing [as he will do] only a very small part when compared with all the rest. The name of the Omnipotent will thus be brought to an end, and such an opinion will of necessity fall to impiety. (Adversus Haereses (Book II, Chapter 1)

[Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl,

I arrived at it by using the lexicon below ... for Rev 19:6 it says "1) he who holds sway over all things; 2) the ruler of all; 3) almighty: God"

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Rev.19

[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Thanks, Johnny. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from here. I think that what you're forwarding here is the idea that only ONE God can be "omnipotent". I think what LDS are saying...(watch me make a fool out of myself here) is that they believe that One God is omnipotent (The God of this world? This universe? This collection of humanity?)

but that they also believe/hope/speculate that they can become an omnipotent being like the One God....that is all powerful, almighty, all ruling....

over other worlds? Other universes? Other collections of humanity that they would take a direct part in establishing?

Am I wrong? Someone fix me!

JG

[johnny]

e=mc2,

Can God make mankind and womankind omnipotent?

Explain how you can have multiply omnipotent persons ... how can you have multiply "rulers of all"?

[Jersey Girl]

e=mc2,

Explain how you can have multiply omnipotent persons ... how can you have multiply "rulers of all"?

Hey, I'm taking this one. My head's in it now! Can't you multiply "rulers of all" if there are more worlds to rule?

[johnny]

Jersey Girl,

I think what LDS are saying...(watch me make a fool out of myself here) is that they believe that One God is omnipotent (The God of this world? This universe? This collection of humanity?)

e=mc2 would disagree with you that only One God is omnipotent ...

but that they also believe/hope/speculate that they can become an omnipotent being like the One God....that is all powerful, almighty, all ruling....over other worlds? Other universes? Other collections of humanity that they would take a direct part in establishing?

Explain how this can be if we are all in the same eternal kingdom with the One God who is omnipotent ...

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

Explain how you can have multiply omnipotent persons ... how can you have multiply "rulers of all"?

I can't multiply omnipotent persons, but I have no doubt that God omnipotent can, because that is precisely His promise, and I have faith in Him and His promises. It's just that simple my friend.