Early Christian Theosis Quotes

[johnny]

e=mc2,

I already have used this as the context. But it is not the final word, since Jesus then tells His Father he in turn SHARES the Father's glory with mankind. You know darn well this theology of Christ destroys your limitations you impose on mankind. Christ saw fit to share the Glory of God, and it is this that makes us all ONE with God. Verse 22 is the final summation, not verse 21. And you know it.

I have no problem that Jesus giving mankind the glory he received from his Father.

Being "ONE with God" means that we will do his will, this unity DOES NOT the destroy the limitations that adopted creatures have.

God can create spirits by a command (Psalm 148:2,5), God does need a heavenly wife like the Mormon Church teaches.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

Being "ONE with God" means that we will do his will, this unity DOES NOT the destroy the limitations that adopted creatures have.

If we retain our limitations, we are not One with Christ in God. All limitations such as sin and death and hell are removed through Christ, all that is left is pure immortality and eternal life sharing God's Glory, which is His power and love and abilities. You are so insistent to limit God it is utterly astonishing.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

I could not possibly agree with you more on this. However, it is the written inscriptions that show who was married. It was God (Jehovah) and Asherah. Of course, Jehovah was following after the pattern of His Father El, exactly as Jesus said of doing what He has seen His Father do! John 5: 19-21 ya kinow.......

Holy Scripture does not reveal God being married ... Holy Scripture does not reveal the Son being married.

Jesus giving His disciples the Father's Glory is the thing that causes them to be ONE with God. You tell me being ONE with God is being different?

Being ONE with God DOES NOT infer that a person can be exactly like God ... Being ONE means they can be united in will and purpose.

Your creeds say the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are ONE. Are you refusing to believe their teaching now also?

The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are ONE, they are united in purpose.

John 17 says that Jesus shared the Glory of the Father with his disciples. What is glory? Isn't that power? By God's GLORY, he can destroy worlds, or create them. That's pure power so far as I understand it.

In the scriptures, glory often refers to God's light and truth. It may also refer to praise or honor and to a certain condition of eternal life or to the glory of God.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

If we retain our limitations, we are not One with Christ in God. All limitations such as sin and death and hell are removed through Christ, all that is left is pure immortality and eternal life sharing God's Glory, which is His power and love and abilities. You are so insistent to limit God it is utterly astonishing.

We are one with Christ in God by serving our Lord God (Rev 22:1-5) within our limitations as creatures who are dependent on our omnipotent God for eternal life.

According to Mormon teachings men need a heavenly wife to create spirits. God does not have this limitation of a heavenly wife, God can create spirits by a command.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

Holy Scripture does not reveal God being married ... Holy Scripture does not reveal the Son being married.

Holy scripture also does not record what Jesus first said, at what age he first walked, what his favorite desert is either, so?

Johnny:

Being ONE with God DOES NOT infer that a person can be exactly like God ... Being ONE means they can be united in will and purpose.

Pure Mormon doctrine. Thank you.

Johnny:

In the scriptures, glory often refers to God's light and truth. It may also refer to praise or honor and to a certain condition of eternal life or to the glory of God.

It is also God's power. Why do you always leave that out? You be a funny person.....

Johnny:

We are one with Christ in God by serving our Lord God (Rev 22:1-5) within our limitations as creatures who are dependent on our omnipotent God for eternal life.

Christ removes our limitations, such as death, sin, and hell. It is because of His love that we inherit all that He and the Father has, ALL THINGS are united in the Father. That's the New Testament teaching, and I believe it.

[Lachoneus]

I don't see "simply" there either, I do see "commanded".

Then we are agreed that God did not create the angels by simply commanding. There was more to it.

Neither do I see a heavenly mother there or anyplace in the Bible ...

The Bible does not contain all truths.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

According to Mormon teachings men need a heavenly wife to create spirits. God does not have this limitation of a heavenly wife, God can create spirits by a command.

That is not the exclusively singular only way God can create, that is, by commanding. It's a good one though, and Mormon teaching as well. There could be myriad of ways for an omnipotent and omniscient being to create. There is nothing saying in the Bible that it all inclusively describes each and every singular act of God.

[Jersey Girl]

Christ removes our limitations, such as death, sin, and hell. It is because of His love that we inherit all that He and the Father has, ALL THINGS are united in the Father. That's the New Testament teaching, and I believe it.

Oy. When I see this, I want to re-word it. You say that we inherit all that He (Christ) and the Father has...isn't that different than saying...

we inherit all that Christ and the Father are? It seems to me that LDS believe that we inherit all that they are.

Nit picker, I know...it's in my DNA!

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

God created spirits by a command ... will you, an adopted creature, have this kind of power?

Since I will be ONE with Christ IN God, I am absolutely ***certain*** of it, since it is God's power. This is the ABC's of it man. You cannot fathom that with God's power, we can do what God does?

[Jersey Girl]

I could not possibly agree with you more on this. However, it is the written inscriptions that show who was married. It was God (Jehovah) and Asherah. Of course, Jehovah was following after the pattern of His Father El, exactly as Jesus said of doing what He has seen His Father do! John 5: 19-21 ya kinow.......

Oh no. Okay, Kerry...unless the inscriptions were written by the actual hand of God, they too, are simply man's speculation about God.

[e=mc2]

Jersey Girl:

Oy. When I see this, I want to re-word it. You say that we inherit all that He (Christ) and the Father has...isn't that different than saying...

we inherit all that Christ and the Father are? It seems to me that LDS believe that we inherit all that they are.

Nit picker, I know...it's in my DNA!

Then yer DNA is quite wonderful there girl! Of course, your point is valid. I think it is both has and are.........

[Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl:

Then yer DNA is quite wonderful there girl! Of course, your point is valid. I think it is both has and are.........

Quite the contrary, more often than not my DNA exasperates people. Having said that, show me a Bible ref that says we inherit all that they ARE.

[e=mc2]

Sure, John 17.

Specifically, John 17:23, hina osin teteleiomenoi eis hen, "that they may be perfected into one." perfected means made whole, complete, etc. Being one in God through Christ is being perfected and made whole. There is no more limitations in us, whether via death, sin, or weakness. In other words, we are al that God is, else we could not be ONE in GOd. That is the pure scriptural teaching of the Greek.

[Jersey Girl]

Sure, John 17.

John 17? Can you spell that out by chapter/verse, please?

[e=mc2]

Yes, I just did, sorry...... see my above post.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

Pure Mormon doctrine. Thank you.

Pure Catholic doctrine ...

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p4s2a3.htm#III

2825 "Although he was a Son, [Jesus] learned obedience through what he suffered." How much more reason have we sinful creatures to learn obedience - we who in him have become children of adoption. We ask our Father to unite our will to his Son's, in order to fulfill his will, his plan of salvation for the life of the world. We are radically incapable of this, but united with Jesus and with the power of his Holy Spirit, we can surrender our will to him and decide to choose what his Son has always chosen: to do what is pleasing to the Father. In committing ourselves to [Christ], we can become one spirit with him, and thereby accomplish his will, in such wise that it will be perfect on earth as it is in heaven. Consider how Jesus Christ] teaches us to be humble, by making us see that our virtue does not depend on our work alone but on grace from on high. He commands each of the faithful who prays to do so universally, for the whole world. For he did not say "thy will be done in me or in us," but "on earth," the whole earth, so that error may be banished from it, truth take root in it, all vice be destroyed on it, virtue flourish on it, and earth no longer differ from heaven.

Christ removes our limitations, such as death, sin, and hell. It is because of His love that we inherit all that He and the Father has, ALL THINGS are united in the Father. That's the New Testament teaching, and I believe it.

The measure of His giving constitutes our limitations.

[Jersey Girl]

Yes, I just did, sorry...... see my above post.

Ah thanks. I'll see if I can pick this up later.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

The measure of His giving constitutes our limitations.

Since it is an "infinite atonement," I can not possibly shout HALLELUJAH any louder! Our limitations are literally taken away.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

That is not the exclusively singular only way God can create, that is, by commanding. It's a good one though, and Mormon teaching as well. There could be myriad of ways for an omnipotent and omniscient being to create. There is nothing saying in the Bible that it all inclusively describes each and every singular act of God.

Please provide the Mormon teaching and reference that teaches God created spirits by command, in other words without a heavenly mother ... thanks.

Are you saying that a heavenly wife is NOT NECESSARY to spirit children?

In Mormon theology can a person have eternal progression without an eternal marriage?

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

Pure Catholic doctrine ...

Then we have something in common about this particular part of Deity. That's rather nice. Now if only you Catholics would allow God the rest of His saving Grace through His power into the whole of His creation, including us, (that is, after all, what Ephesians 2:15 is completely, entirely, and without reservation about after all......) you'd understand what makes God tick!

Johnny:

Please provide the Mormon teaching and reference that teaches God created spirits by command, in other words without a heavenly mother ... thanks.

Since the Bible is also part of our scriptures, I'd say the scripture you presented would do rather nicely for this part.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

Since I will be ONE with Christ IN God, I am absolutely ***certain*** of it, since it is God's power. This is the ABC's of it man. You cannot fathom that with God's power, we can do what God does?

Is this your personal opinion ... if not could you provide the Mormon teaching that a man does not need a heavenly wife to create spirit children.

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

Are you saying that a heavenly wife is NOT NECESSARY to spirit children?

Did you read me say that?

Johnny:

Is this your personal opinion

I gave you the scriptures. You know where it came from.

[johnny]

e=mc2,

Specifically, John 17:23, hina osin teteleiomenoi eis hen, "that they may be perfected into one." perfected means made whole, complete, etc. Being one in God through Christ is being perfected and made whole. There is no more limitations in us, whether via death, sin, or weakness. In other words, we are al that God is, else we could not be ONE in GOd. That is the pure scriptural teaching of the Greek.

Your understanding of John 17 is very incomplete and very distorted ... below are some other Bible verses that make it more complete ...

Jesus is inseparably one the Father, the Father dwells in the Son (John 17:21), the Father that is in the Son does the works (John 14:10).

He that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit, they are members of Christ, the Holy Ghost is in them (1Cor 6:15-19).

Those glorified bring forth fruit because the words of Jesus abide in them (John 15:7,8 ) . The one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, will make their abode with them (John 14:23).

God works in them to do his will (Phil 2:13).

[johnny]

e=mc2,

Since it is an "infinite atonement," I can not possibly shout HALLELUJAH any louder! Our limitations are literally taken away.

Why do you distort the doctrine of the atonement ... "infinite" implies that the atonement is applied all mankind.

Because of the Atonement an ADOPTED creature can be glorified, can be conformed to the image of the Son (Rom 8:17-30). As ADOPTED sons of God or "gods" they can inherit material things but they will not inherit God's natural attributes like omnipresent (1Kings 8:27), being omnipotent (Rev 19:6; 1Cor 15:28) and being the source of all things (1Cor 8:6).

[e=mc2]

Johnny:

Those glorified bring forth fruit because the words of Jesus abide in them (John 15:7,8 ) . The one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, will make their abode with them (John 14:23).

And what do you think the idea is behind the words "bring forth fruit"? We are DOING something.....HEY! This is whatI have been saying now for dozens pf posts. Glad to see you reenforcing it. And if God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ABIDE in these persons, then I cannot possibly fathom having *ANY* limitations of any kinds. What? God dwelling with limitations?