Warship Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Enemy Ace,Hope your doing well.That is very interesting Ace, it certainly does make me see the Adam God doctrine in a different light. I went back and looked at your previous post as well.You said Enki later became known as Yahweh...but does Adam ever become known as Yahweh in the bible? Does that mean that Elohim created yahweh(jesus) in the garden and that Jesus is the progenitor of all mankind? PGP Moses 3:18And I, the Lord God, said unto my Only Begotten, that it was not good that the man should be alone, therefore I will make a help meet for him. Aren't all three characters here at once..God, Jesus, and Adam?In ch5:6,7 an angel of the Lord (which sounds suspiciously like yeshua (jesus)) tells Adam to do all things in the name of the Son of God. Isn't it commonly held that Adam was taught to look forward to Christ and began religion. From that point on it was free to be distorted and changed.Was he taught to look forward to himself?Couldn't the babylonian myths be corrupted adamic religion? I'm having a little trouble seeing how all this gels. Am I missing something? Keep in mind that I've never been big on the Adam is God doctrine before (so have not explored it much) but this is the first thing I have ever seen that gives it any sense at all.ThanksI have always believed the garden story to be symbolic and not actual history but I guess I am playing devil's advocate with texts bc I am curious as how it ties together with the more scienctific view. To see if the texts will acomodate or fold.
Maya Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 This is very interesting... I am listening.... I been pondering of these things too and hope tomknow one day what is the truth.In the Finnish bible the translation gose.... And the man gave the name to his wife that is Eva, because she became the mother of all living....?!One should really be able to read the original language to be able to know.Keep talking I am reading... Enemy.. where can I find the sumeri writtings? sumeri-suomi...
David Bokovoy Posted September 22, 2006 Author Posted September 22, 2006 Hello Warship,[Gen 2:24]..has always sounded like editorial exegesis to me.Notice that it says this very general "a man" as in any man, not the same as "the man" as Adam is referred to ... The expression
David Bokovoy Posted September 22, 2006 Author Posted September 22, 2006 Hello Uncle Dale,More likely the text reflects two different sources, combined as chapter 1 and chapter 2.Of course Genesis 1 and 2 derive from two separate sources. Given the fact that I never allow the story featured in Genesis 1 to affect my reading of Genesis 2, this fact, however is a mute issue.Regards,David
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Enemy.. where can I find the sumeri writtings? sumeri-suomi... biggrin.gif Errrr...How much money do you have? Just kidding...here's a link to a good site...http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myths/classic.htm
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Couldn't the babylonian myths be corrupted adamic religion?Or maybe the other way around.I'm having a little trouble seeing how all this gels. Am I missing something? Keep in mind that I've never been big on the Adam is God doctrine before (so have not explored it much) but this is the first thing I have ever seen that gives it any sense at all.Well, don't go around teaching this stuff or you'll get a whole bunch of backlash. I really don't understand it all that well, either. Suffice it to say that. at best, this is an application of a ancient mythological belief with a 19th century promulgation which is neither scriptural or even part of a generalized church speculation. I agree though that it does explain some things.
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 You said Enki later became known as Yahweh...but does Adam ever become known as Yahweh in the bible?In the Bible, no, but Adam in the Sumerian myths was created from the blood of a god and the clay from the earth. Therefore, Adam is part divine and part mortal. Does that mean that Elohim created yahweh(jesus) in the garden and that Jesus is the progenitor of all mankind?If we apply that thought forward from the creation to the advent of Jesus then no, but if we go back and apply the thought that Adam was the first semi-divine being and Jesus was the natural result then that would be interesting. I think we can get too literal in some of these readings. Was Adam Jesus? I don't think so. Was Jesus in the similitude of Adam in that he was creator of our salvation like Adam was the father of our bodies, then yes.Maybe David can apply something here.
Neighbor Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 God did create Adam and Eve of one flesh - Eve was made from a rib taken from Adam's side. There is no 'forgotten Goddess'. God is completely self sufficient, but it was not good for man to be alone, so God made woman from man, for his helpmate and procreation of the human race.I think you'd be better to study more carefully what the Scriptures of old say than to imagine things that are not there because they aren't there.
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 God did create Adam and Eve of one flesh - Eve was made from a rib taken from Adam's side. There is no 'forgotten Goddess'. God is completely self sufficient, but it was not good for man to be alone, so God made woman from man, for his helpmate and procreation of the human race.I think you'd be better to study more carefully what the Scriptures of old say than to imagine things that are not there because they aren't there. Don't you find it hard to manage such comments in the vacuum in which they are presented? Understanding the Bible without understanding the influences and nuances of the ancient world would be like driving a car without understanding how it works. It's great if all you do is drive, but miserable if it breaks down and needs repair. The facts are simple. There is a nuance of a divine god/goddess in the story of Adam and Eve and the Bible only hints at it. To go further we need to look at neighboring ideas. David presented an interesting and compelling thesis.
salvar774 Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 God did create Adam and Eve of one flesh - Eve was made from a rib taken from Adam's side. There is no 'forgotten Goddess'. God is completely self sufficient, but it was not good for man to be alone, so God made woman from man, for his helpmate and procreation of the human race.I think you'd be better to study more carefully what the Scriptures of old say than to imagine things that are not there because they aren't there.Hello Neighbor ,so who is the us and the our in "let us make man in our image"It not good for man to be alone but it is good for God to be alone ?Just by reasoning there is room for another being. Why not a mother?
Neighbor Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 To go further we need to look at neighboring ideas. Neighbor: Hardly. To understand the promise of God to Abraham, do we need to understand the paganism Abraham left at God's command? To understand the Ten Commandments do we need to understand the Egyptian 'Book of Breathings'? God called Abraham to bless all nations through his Seed, by which came grace and truth. God revealed the promises of and the prophecies concerning this Seed through the seed of Abraham - which includes Moses' God given, Spirit inspired account of all that we have been given from the beginnings of creation. That there are some differences speaks to the perversion of ancient history till the time of Moses. We don't need to know perversion to know good.
Del March Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Understanding the Bible without understanding the influences and nuances of the ancient world would be like driving a car without understanding how it works. It's great if all you do is drive, but miserable if it breaks down and needs repair. As an archetypical woman, I am fine with simply driving the car, and letting the guys repair it when it breaks down IOW: I enjoy reading threads like this one, but a simple reading of the Bible is enough for me in my non-online life Del
Neighbor Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 The Power on high, His word and His Spirit, to which the angels serve and worship. All things have been created for His pleasure - not because He has need of them. Indeed, 'what is man that Thou art mindful of him'?Has God ever found pleasure in those who disbelieve what He said?
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 To go further we need to look at neighboring ideas. Neighbor: Hardly. To understand the promise of God to Abraham, do we need to understand the paganism Abraham left at God's command? To understand the Ten Commandments do we need to understand the Egyptian 'Book of Breathings'? God called Abraham to bless all nations through his Seed, by which came grace and truth. God revealed the promises of and the prophecies concerning this Seed through the seed of Abraham - which includes Moses' God given, Spirit inspired account of all that we have been given from the beginnings of creation. That there are some differences speaks to the perversion of ancient history till the time of Moses With all respect, yes, we do! What Abraham came from is very important or it wouldn't have been in the Bible. Abram was Sumerian and as such was subject to their beliefs. There is no reference to his conversion in the Bible to a completely monotheistic belief, in fact, we know from the various histories of the time that Israel prior to the exile was a culture made up of various beliefs many of which were polytheistic. I don't even think we can say with 100% certainty that Abrahman was a strict monotheist.We don't need to know perversion to know good.Then why have conversion stories? Why have altar calls or stories to inspire? We need the dichotomous nature of conversion. What was perverse in our lives is now gone replaced by something new and beautiful.
David Bokovoy Posted September 22, 2006 Author Posted September 22, 2006 Wow. I wonder if any feminist scholars have picked up on this. It starts Adam and Eve on equal footing. The nephilim were then perverting the proper order of "separation" amongst their other failings.Indeed. Just as it should be. As I
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Ace, care to let me know why is wasn't offensive to you??DelMarch, I'm glad to see some found it off base. I said it raised my eyebrow. I have seen too many other things that are truly offensive to worry about one comment that hopefully was made in jest and can be chocked up to youthful exuberance.
consiglieri Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 God did create Adam and Eve of one flesh - Eve was made from a rib taken from Adam's side. There is no 'forgotten Goddess'. God is completely self sufficient, but it was not good for man to be alone, so God made woman from man, for his helpmate and procreation of the human race.I think you'd be better to study more carefully what the Scriptures of old say than to imagine things that are not there because they aren't there.You mean, like the concept that God is completely self-sufficient?Pugnaciously yours,--Consiglieri
urroner Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 God did create Adam and Eve of one flesh - Eve was made from a rib taken from Adam's side. There is no 'forgotten Goddess'. God is completely self sufficient, but it was not good for man to be alone, so God made woman from man, for his helpmate and procreation of the human race.I think you'd be better to study more carefully what the Scriptures of old say than to imagine things that are not there because they aren't there.You mean, like the concept that God is completely self-sufficient?Pugnaciously yours,--Consiglieri If God is completely and totally self-sufficient, then why does He need to be worshipped? Why did He create anything? Doesn't sound too totally self-sufficient to me.
Olavarria Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 DBthanks for starting such interesting posts.
Neighbor Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 Worshipping God is for our benifit, it isn't because He needs it, it is because we need to express our love and devotion to Him. He seeks those who do it in spirit and truth.
cgmagana Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 Thank you, David ineresting. I would like your permission to translate it to spanish, many of my friend want to read it but do not speak English
Warship Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 to everyone who found offense with divine orgies.....it was only a joke...and a funny one too.Mod - I have deleted all of the chatter about it that is derailing the thread. The "joke" was distasteful. Now move on.
Warship Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 Ace,Couldn't the babylonian myths be corrupted adamic religion? Or maybe the other way around.I assumed that this was what was implied. I wanted to know if you gave credence of the pgp over what is probably the consensus of the Garden Story simply being a rehashing of older babylonian myth.Or if you knew of something to make them harmonious.Thanks Aceps. Colorful new Avitar.
Warship Posted September 23, 2006 Posted September 23, 2006 David,Thanks for the response, it gave me a much better picture of the original writing.... I appreciate it.
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