Zakuska Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Watched a documentary on Youtube last night, and found this interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COlq8eW_ciU The southern most tip of South America comprised of Argentina and Chile was named "Patagonia" by the Spanish explorer Magellan because of the unusually tall "Giant men with big feet" who lived there. It shows up on many maps of the time. Map examples:http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2009/11/ancient-map-depicting-succarath.htmlhttp://toulouseletrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/patagonia-old-map.gifhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonia "But one day (without anyone expecting it) we saw a giant who was on the shore [near today’s Puerto San Julián, Argentina], quite naked, and who danced, leaped, and sang, and while he sang he threw sand and dust on his head. Our captain [Magellan] sent one of his men toward him, charging him to leap and sing like the other in order to reassure him and to show him friendship. Which he did. Immediately the man of the ship, dancing, led this giant to a small island where the captain awaited him. And when he was before us, he began to marvel and to be afraid, and he raised one finger upward, believing that we came from heaven. And he was so tall that the tallest of us only came up to his waist. Withal he was well proportioned. . . . The captain named the people of this sort Pathagoni"Antonio Pigafetta, Magellan’s Voyage: A Narrative Account of the First Circumnavigation, trans. R. A. Skelton (New Haven, Conn., 1969), 1:46–47, 50. "Magellane was not altogether deceived, in naming them Giants; for they generally differ from the common sort of men, both in stature, bignes, and strength of body, as also in the hideousnesse of their voice: but yet they are nothing so monstrous, or giantlike as they were reported; there being some English men, as tall, as the highest of any that we could see, but peradventure, the Spaniards did not thinke, that ever any English man would come thither, to reprove them; and thereupon might presume the more boldly to lie: the name Pentagones, Five cubits viz. 7. Foote and halfe, describing the full height (if not some what more) of the highest of them. But this is certaine, that the Spanish cruelties there used [referring to Magellan’s hostage taking], have made them more monstrous, in minde and manners, then they are in body; and more inhospitable, to deale with any strangers, that shall come thereafter."Sir Francis Drake (nephew), The World Encompassed by Sir Francis Drake . . . (London, 1628), 28 Wow... Bigfoot legends codified into history and the Map of the Americas from the beginning! I'm thinking that a giant race of Amonites in the Bible isn't as far fetched as critics would have us beleive. All it would take is a genetic mutation effecting the petuitary gland to render them all Giants. Giantism is a pretty well documented medical phenominon usually having to do with tumors on the petuitary gland. 17 year old -7 ft tall Brazilian Model (hes 5'-4") Bao Xishun - Tallest man in the world (China) (7'9") Robert Pershing Waldo (8 ft 11 inches) 30 Tallest People in World History: Lets discuss Giants in the Bible. Edited June 12, 2014 by Zakuska
Zakuska Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Wiki on the name: (Linked above) Patagonian giants: early European perceptionsThe first European explorers of Patagonia observed that the indigenous people in the region were taller than the average Europeans of the time, prompting some of them to believe that Patagonians were giants. According to Antonio Pigafetta,[2] one of the Magellan expedition's few survivors and its published chronicler, Magellan bestowed the name "Patagão" (or Patagón) on the inhabitants they encountered there, and the name "Patagonia" for the region. Although Pigafetta's account does not describe how this name came about, subsequent popular interpretations gave credence to a derivation meaning 'land of the big feet'. However, this etymology is questionable. The term is most likely derived from an actual character name, "Patagón", a savage creature confronted by Primaleón of Greece, the hero in the homonymous Spanish chivalry novel (or knight-errantry tale) by Francisco Vázquez.[17] This book, published in 1512, was the sequel of the romance "Palmerín de Oliva," much in fashion at the time, and a favourite reading of Magellan.[18] Magellan's perception of the natives, dressed in skins, and eating raw meat, clearly recalled the uncivilized Patagón in Vázquez's book. Novelist and travel writer Bruce Chatwin suggests etymological roots of both Patagon and Patagonia in his book, In Patagonia,[19] noting the similarity between "Patagon" and the Greek word παταγος,[20] which means "a roaring" or "gnashing of teeth" (in his chronicle, Pigafetta describes the Patagonians as "roaring like bulls"). The main interest in the region sparked by Pigafetta's account came from his reports of their meeting with the local inhabitants, whom they claimed to measure some nine to twelve feet in height —"...so tall that we reached only to his waist"—, and hence the later idea that Patagonia meant "big feet". This supposed race of Patagonian giants or Patagones entered into the common European perception of this little-known and distant area, to be further fuelled by subsequent reports of other expeditions and famous-name travellers like Sir Francis Drake, which seemed to confirm these accounts. Early charts of the New World sometimes added the legend regio gigantum ("region of the giants") to the Patagonian area. By 1611 the Patagonian god Setebos (Settaboth in Pigafetta) was familiar to the hearers of The Tempest. The concept and general belief persisted for a further 250 years, and was to be sensationally re-ignited in 1767 when an "official" (but anonymous) account was published of Commodore John Byron's recent voyage of global circumnavigation in HMS Dolphin. Byron and crew had spent some time along the coast, and the publication (Voyage Round the World in His Majesty's Ship the Dolphin) seemed to give proof positive of their existence; the publication became an overnight best-seller, thousands of extra copies were to be sold to a willing public, and other prior accounts of the region were hastily re-published (even those in which giant-like folk were not mentioned at all). However, the Patagonian giant frenzy was to die down substantially only a few years later, when some more sober and analytical accounts were published. In 1773 John Hawkesworth published on behalf of the Admiralty a compendium of noted English southern-hemisphere explorers' journals, including that of James Cook and John Byron. In this publication, drawn from their official logs, it became clear that the people Byron's expedition had encountered were no taller than 6-foot-6-inch (1.98 m), very tall but by no means giants. Interest soon subsided, although awareness of and belief in the myth persisted in some quarters even up into the 20th century.[21] Edited June 12, 2014 by Zakuska
Zakuska Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Some intresting notes on Goliath in the Bible which gets into some documented textual corruption of the "original" autographs. Elhanan and Goliath[edit]A Goliath makes another appearance in 2 Samuel 21:19, which tells how Goliath the Gittite was killed by “Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite.” The fourth-century B.C. 1 Chronicles explains the second Goliath by saying that Elhanan "slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath", apparently constructing the name Lahmi from the last portion of the word "Bethlehemite" ("beit-ha’lahmi").[9] The King James Bible translators adopted this into their translation of 2 Samuel 21:18–19, although the Hebrew text at this point makes no mention of the word "brother".There are textual issues that have been noted in the parallel passages in 2 Samuel 21:18-19 and 1 Chronicles 20:5 which point to the possibility that the original readings in both passages were more similar to begin with.Baruch Halpern notes the duplication of the Hebrew word oregim in 2 Sam 21:19, regarded to be a textual transmission error by a scribe, saying, "The name of Elhanan's father has been garbled — Orgim means 'weavers' and has been mistakenly copied from the description of Goliath's weaponry".[10] Gleason Archer also notes this misplaced word due to the copyist's mistake:“ The copyist misplaced the word for "weavers" ( '-r-g-ym ) so as to put it right after "Elhanan" as his patronymic (ben Y-'-r-y'-r--g-ym, or ben ya 'arey 'ore -gim -- "the son of the forests of weavers" -- a most unlikely name for anyone's father!). In Chronicles the 'ore grim ("weavers") comes right after menor ("a beam of ") -- thus making perfectly good sense.[11] ”After noting the various problems in the parallel texts Halpern suggests, "Most likely, storytellers displaced the deed from the otherwise obscure Elhanan onto the more famous character, David."[10] Archer offers his own take as well, "In other words, the 2 Samuel 21 passage is a perfectly traceable corruption of the original wording, which fortunately has been correctly preserved in 1 Chronicles 20:5."[11] The translator comments from the NET Bible are more cautious though in light of the textual corruption in both the texts in 2 Samuel 21:18-19 and 1 Chronicles 20:5 in known extant manuscripts, which most likely indicates that neither are the original reading of the autograph texts, and their relation to 1 Samuel 17:“ According to 1 Sam 17:4-58 it was David who killed Goliath, but according to the MT of 2 Sam 21:19 it was Elhanan who killed him. Many scholars believe that the two passages are hopelessly at variance with one another. Others have proposed various solutions to the difficulty, such as identifying David with Elhanan or positing the existence of two Goliaths. But in all likelihood the problem is the result of difficulties in the textual transmission of the Samuel passage; in fact, from a text-critical point of view the books of Samuel are the most poorly preserved of all the books of the Hebrew Bible. The parallel passage in 1 Chr 20:5 reads, “Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath.” Both versions are textually corrupt. The Chronicles text has misread “Bethlehemite” (בֵּית הַלַּחְמִי, bet hallakhmi) as the accusative sign followed by a proper name אֶת לַחְמִי (’et lakhmi). (See the note at 1 Chr 20:5.) The Samuel text misread the word for “brother” (אַח, ’akh) as the accusative sign (אֵת, ’et), thereby giving the impression that Elhanan, not David, killed Goliath. Thus in all probability the original text read, “Elhanan son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath.” [12] ”If this is the case the texts were both less problematic in their original form, and the original presence of 'akh (brother) as preserved in 1 Chronicles 20:5 would be accurately attested to in that verse.[12] Many of these issues are a matter of Textual Criticism.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath Edited June 12, 2014 by Zakuska
strappinglad Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Pigafetta = bigafeeta . Now it all makes sense.
Zakuska Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Goliath and SaulThe underlying purpose of the story of Goliath is to show that Saul is not fit to be king (and that David is). Saul was chosen to lead the Israelites against their enemies, but when faced with Goliath he refuses to do so; Goliath is a giant, and Saul is a very tall man. His exact height is not given, but he's a head taller than anyone else in all Israel [1 Samuel 9:2]) which implies he was over 6-feet-tall (1.83 m); and Saul's armour and weaponry are apparently no worse than Goliath's (and David, of course, refuses Saul's armour in any case). "David declares that when a lion or bear came and attacked his father's sheep, he battled against it and killed it, [but Saul] has been cowering in fear instead of rising up and attacking the threat to his sheep (i.e. Israel)."[1] David Presents the Head of Goliath to King Saul, 1627,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath So we can see that it is medically possible to have "giants" and Goliath of gath is/are completely Plausible. Edited June 12, 2014 by Zakuska
Recommended Posts