What Would Ordination Of Women Look Like?

[DonBradley]

A few observations:

*The Prophet explicitly says he has organized the Relief Society to make it a group of "priests."

*Joseph (in another part of the same minutes) "turns the key" over to the Society's presidency.

*He also states that the Society can set apart its own officers, paralleling these to male priesthood offices ("Deacons, Teachers &c."

*The terms "set apart" and "ordain" were interchangeable in Joseph's day. Hence, he says (as D&C 25 also says of Emma) that he will "ordain" the Relief Society presidency, which he does, and also says the Relief Society can "set apart" its officers parallel to "Deacons, Teachers &c." So, to "set apart" such officers meant, in his day, the same thing as to "ordain" them. They didn't make the linguistic distinction between these that we do.

In sum, then, the Relief Society Presidency was given "keys" of authority by which it appoint (ordain/set apart) officers at least broadly parallel to, and on the model of, the officers in the male priesthood quorums ("according to the ancient priesthood"). Joseph used the term "priest" in connection with this. But I'm not sure the terminology as such is what matters. What is clear is that the Relief Society was given keys of divine authority by which its officers could be ordained or set apart in a way parallel to male "deacons, teachers &c." Whether the Relief Society is said to have "priesthood" or not, it clearly has divine authority. And that, rather than the name priesthood, is what obviously matters.

Joseph's vision for the Relief Society was one in which the women who comprised it were to have divine authority and power. While it's not clear just what this power was supposed to be, or how the Relief Society might now look if it had its officers on the model of the familiar priesthood quorums, hopefully we will someday find out, as the Society comes to fully realize the Prophet's original vision.

Joseph spoke of the office of "elect lady," given to Emma in D&C 25 and used in the New Testament, being a female presiding office. By this he implied that there was a women's quorum or society in the primitive church. And thus, on the principle of the restoration of all things, this too will need to be fully restored in line with the inspiration he had for how it was to function, and according to further revelation.

Don

Edited April 15, 2013 by DonBradley

[wenglund]

I am guessing it would involve the addition of table cloths and flower arrangements.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[DonBradley]

I am guessing it would involve the addition of table cloths and flower arrangements.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

That comment seems pretty demeaning of the Prophet's vision for the Relief Society, Wade. I would hope you'll remove it.

Don

[wenglund]

That comment seems pretty demeaning of the Prophet's vision for the Relief Society, Wade. I would hope you'll remove it. Don

Could you please explain how my brief comment could in any reasonable way be considered as demeaning? I have no idea what you are talking about. There must be much that I didn't know I had written between that one line.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[DonBradley]

I'd be happy to, Wade.

de·mean to lower in dignity, honor, or standing; debase: He demeaned himself by accepting the bribe.

The Prophet's vision for the Relief Society:

the Society should move according to the ancient Priesthood, hence there should be a select Society separate from all the evils of the world, choice, virtuous and holy— Said he was going to make of this Society a kingdom of priests as in Enoch’s day— as in Pauls day.

Your characterization of what it would like when the Relief Society realizes the Prophet's vision:

I am guessing it would involve the addition of table cloths and flower arrangements.

Does the bottom quote convey the same dignity as the prior quote? If not, it would lower the Relief Society's dignity, which is simply what it means to "demean" something.

Don

[DonBradley]

Wade,

I assumed you were responding to the prior post about the Prophet's vision for the Relief Society.

But perhaps you were giving a very belated response to the OP question, without specifying that. - ? In the latter case, your comment would not be demeaning in the way I indicated but only stereotyping.

Don

[DonBradley]

Hmm. It looks like your comment was responding to the OP. I took it as saying that unfolding the Relief Society would mean adding more floral arrangements, etc. But looking more closely it appears you meant adding flowers, etc. to priesthood meetings.

My bad.

Don

[wenglund]

Hmm. It looks like your comment was responding to the OP.

Correct--more particularly, the topical question of the thread.

I took it as saying that unfolding the Relief Society would mean adding more floral arrangements, etc. But looking more closely it appears you meant adding flowers, etc. to priesthood meetings. My bad. Don

No problem. Your a good guy, and so I figured there may have been some confusion. I am not sure what you meant by "unfolding the Relief Society," and I and still puzzled how adding table cloths and flowers would demean rather than spruce thing up, though none of that matters now that things have been cleared up.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-