Anakin7 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 Our LDS JEDI KNIGHT Master Zakuska has in the past quoted one of Martin Luther statements regarding faith and works. I thought I would post the entire quote from Luther so as he is not taken out of context : " What Augustine says in indeed true: He who has created you without yourself will not save you without yourself. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation;for faith alone gives life. For the sake of the hypocrites it should be said that good works are necessary for salvation. Works must be done, but it does not follow from this that works save... Works save externaly, that is, they testify that we are just and that in a man there is faith which saves him internaly, as Paul says : 'With the heart man believeth unto rightiousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation ". [What Luther says 3; 1509]. Does this change the meaning when posted in full ?. Luv ya Zak !. In His Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS JEDI KNIGHT 2
Mike Reed Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Luther belived that Baptism, Communion, and Pennance were sacraments. Eventually, though... Luther changed his mind on penance, which left the remaining 2: baptism and communion. Both of these Mormons might call works, but Luther would say that these aren't man's work, since God gave these sacraments as a gift. Baptism was commanded by God, and baptism works through the power of the Word, spirit, and faith. With faith the Christian submits their self to God, and believes in the promise that they entered into at Baptism. With baptism God promises to make them holy by killing the sin within them. As the Christians trusts in his baptism, and also feeds upon body and blood of Christ in the Lord's Supper, they open their self to God's internal workings. God "makes our weak things to become strong," to quote Ether. After this moment, the "works" of the Christian is simply a testimony of their faith and God's work within them. Christians can also fall from grace, by resisting God and faith, and act contrary to God's will. In this way the Christian invalidates their baptism (at least, temporarily)--at which time it becomes the responsibility of the apostate to change their ways and return to Christ. Luther compares it to a person Jumping out of a ship... the Ship remains there, but the Christian must swim back. Upon returning, there is no need for rebaptism. God will accept them, and once again work to kill the sin within him. Does that make sense?Interestingly... Luther also believed in infant baptism, and taught that the faith of God Parents and others witnessing/participating in the initiation rite, could work vicariously for the infant being baptized. Edited October 25, 2011 by Mike Reed
Mike Reed Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 Elsewhere Luther compares faith to a germinating plant needing soil (works of God) to latch onto, take root, and grow. Luther didn't elaborate on the analogy--at least, not in the material I have read--but it reminded me a little of Alma 32.
Zakuska Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) I don't think it changes it in the least. But it does sound awefully like... 2 Nephi 25:2323 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Edited October 25, 2011 by Zakuska
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