livy111us Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Just in case anyone missed it in the FAIR Journal, FAIR is done with the BOA DVD and it looks good! They interviewed John Gee, Michael Rhodes, Kerry Muhlestein, Kevin Barney, David Bokovoy, Jared Ludlow and Mike Ash. Here is an outline of the content of the videoIntroductionPapyrus translation Process age of papyrus scroll lengthFacsimiles generalFacsimile 1 Lion couch scene JRED Biblical characters associated with Osiris Egyptian text with Jewish scriptureFacsimile 2Facsimile 3 Summary of facsimilesEvidence General Egyptians/Abraham Apocalypse of Abraham Egyptian not known in JS day Word translations Geographical locations Astronomy Geocentric viewCouncil of GodsTestimonyBonus features By study and by faith, EGYPTOLOGY STILL IN ITS BEGINNINGS/apologetics LacunaEgyptian endowmentI think I might be missing a few bonus feature subjects, but you get the point. This video will bring you up to speed on the arguments in behalf of the book of Abraham and hopefully teach you a few cool things as well. They put a lot of time and effort into this so please share this info with others. You can purchase the DVD in the FAIR bookstore http://bookstore.fai...id_product=1260 Edited October 7, 2011 by livy111us
livy111us Posted October 8, 2011 Author Posted October 8, 2011 It looks like Steve Smoot has just wrote a blog post about the DVD on the FAIR blog.http://www.fairblog.org/2011/10/07/a-most-remarkable-book-supplementary-reading/
Olavarria Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Just in case anyone missed it in the FAIR Journal, FAIR is done with the BOA DVD and it looks good! They interviewed John Gee, Michael Rhodes, Kerry Muhlestein, Kevin Barney, David Bokovoy, Jared Ludlow and Mike Ash. Here is an outline of the content of the videoIntroductionPapyrus translation Process age of papyrus scroll lengthFacsimiles generalFacsimile 1 Lion couch scene JRED Biblical characters associated with Osiris Egyptian text with Jewish scriptureFacsimile 2Facsimile 3 Summary of facsimilesEvidence General Egyptians/Abraham Apocalypse of Abraham Egyptian not known in JS day Word translations Geographical locations Astronomy Geocentric viewCouncil of GodsTestimonyBonus features By study and by faith, EGYPTOLOGY STILL IN ITS BEGINNINGS/apologetics LacunaEgyptian endowmentI think I might be missing a few bonus feature subjects, but you get the point. This video will bring you up to speed on the arguments in behalf of the book of Abraham and hopefully teach you a few cool things as well. They put a lot of time and effort into this so please share this info with others. You can purchase the DVD in the FAIR bookstore http://bookstore.fai...id_product=1260
Xander Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Looks like the same ol same ol. Nothing new.Ding ding ding!!!We have a winner.I'll order it anyway, as I'm curious to see the level of intellectual honesty regarding a number of these apologetic points, particularly on the council of the gods. I'm wondering if it will mention this doctrine corresponding to his recently acquired understanding of the meaning of elohim via conventional means, as well as the contradiction it presents with he previously revealed Book of Moses.I'm betting it won't. I wonder if it will make the popular, yet deceptively misleading claim that the plain of "Olishem" is mentioned in other ancient texts.I'm betting it will.Any takers? Edited October 8, 2011 by Xander 1
wenglund Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Was there much in the DVD about the KEP, and if so, was Will Schryver numbered among the interviewees?Thanks, -Wade Englund-
wenglund Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Ding ding ding!!!We have a winner.I'll order it anyway, as I'm curious to see the level of intellectual honesty regarding a number of these apologetic points, particularly on the council of the gods. I'm wondering if it will mention this doctrine corresponding to his recently acquired understanding of the meaning of elohim via conventional means, as well as the contradiction it presents with he previously revealed Book of Moses.I'm betting it won't.I wonder if it will make the popular, yet deceptively misleading claim that the plain of "Olishem" is mentioned in other ancient texts.I'm betting it will.Any takers?Speaking of the same of the same ol nothing new....who wants to bet that, in his own mind, Kevin Graham will wipe, if not just wiped, the floor with the LDS apologetic DVD. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
William Schryver Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Was there much in the DVD about the KEP, and if so, was Will Schryver numbered among the interviewees?Thanks, -Wade Englund-I was requested to be interviewed for this production, but declined the gracious invitation for the simple fact that the presentation of my findings would not lend itself well to an interview format. Once the bulk of my KEP analysis is published, and is thus able to be considered along with its accompanying images and text-critical transcriptions, then I will be willing, should there be a "sequel" to this initial DVD production.
livy111us Posted October 8, 2011 Author Posted October 8, 2011 One thing that amazes me is how many critics dismiss the video not only without seeing it, but don't even have second hand information about the video.. And who says our critics aren't open?!?! 3
Xander Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) One thing that amazes me is how many critics dismiss the video not only without seeing it, but don't even have second hand information about the video.. And who says our critics aren't open?!?!It has been demonstrated time and time again, that those who are most familiar with the "best" of Book of Abraham apologetics, are those evil "critics." I said I would buy the DVD and I already ordered it, precisely because I don't want some apologist telling me I haven't exposed myself to the "latest" defenses the apologists have produced. But I won't kid myself and assume this DVD is anything more than a bunch of worn out and well refuted arguments repackaged in a video format. You can assume it will present some innovative, earth shattering apologetic, but there is no reason to believe it will. And it doesn't claim to. We already know how the apologetic community reacts when something "new" is formulated by a believer, no matter his lack of knowledge or credentials. Just look back at last year's hysteria that ensued when all the Mormon blogs and news letters were informed of Schryver's supposed "game-changer" that turned out to be a flop. If John Gee had anything new to add to what he has already said, he wouldn't introduce it in a video. Neither would any of the other folks who were listed.But I'm glad they did this. It will serve the purpose they intended I'm sure (by keeping certain fence-straddlers from making the "wrong" choice; at least for awhile) but it will also make it easier to cross reference apologetic arguments in future debates.I'm sad to know Schryver's apologetic won't be included in the video. Edited October 8, 2011 by Xander 2
William Schryver Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) ... Schryver's supposed "game-changer" that turned out to be a flop.I continue to be amazed by the fact that, without the benefit of a single substantive counter-argument, my findings, as put forth in my 2010 FAIR presentation (The Meaning and Purpose of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers), can so facilely be pronounced "a flop." All you have to do is get enough people to shout it together to make it so. This, folks, is why formal, reviewed publications, and not internet message boards, are the preferred venue for serious scholarly argumentation. Edited October 8, 2011 by William Schryver 3
Bill Hamblin Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) I am shocked, shocked, that the anti-Mormons are already critiquing the video before they've actually watched it. OK, I'm really not shocked. But it is rather amusing to see how utterly predictable they are. I've actually watched the video. It's basically a popularizing summary of the main arguments for the BOA. There's nothing really new it it, but, then it's purpose was not to provide new arguments, but to create an accessible DVD for a general audience. PS And no, Kevin Graham is NOT in the DVD. Although it could be his voice in the laugh-track. Edited October 8, 2011 by Bill Hamblin
Mike Reed Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) So then we are right, Bill. There's nothing new in it. Thanks for the clarification.I am pleased to see that Mike Ash, Kevin Barney, and David Bokovoy are in the video. I enjoy their perspectives. Although I may not agree with their ultimate conclusions, they seem to be more willing than most apologists to adjust their positions as new information comes to light.ps. You probably shouldn't call skeptics "anti-Mormons" on this forum. Last time I checked, such accusations are against the rules. Edited October 9, 2011 by Mike Reed
Bill Hamblin Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 So then we are right, Bill. There's nothing new in it. Thanks for the clarification.I am pleased to see that Mike Ash, Kevin Barney, and David Bokovoy are in the video. I enjoy their perspectives. Although I may not agree with their ultimate conclusions, they seem to be more willing than most apologists to adjust their positions as new information comes to light.ps. You probably shouldn't call skeptics "anti-Mormons" on this forum. Last time I checked, such accusations are against the rules.You can be right by random chance, with no substantive intellectual rationale for your claims. So? You really should examine the evidence before drawing your conclusion. I know it's not the standard anti-Mormon method, but ...I'm afraid I have to call 'em like I see 'em. An anti-Mormon is an anti-Mormon, even if they don't like being called anti-Mormons. You can call me a pro-Mormon any time you like, by the way.So, report me to the powers that be, and they can ban me if they want. 2
ldsfaqs Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Reed, just because some have made you "god" status, that nothing critical can be said toward you, doesn't mean you aren't the term, and that it's completely banned here.You are the term in every way. If you don't like it, don't be it.And Bill Hamblin..... Thank you for standing for the right. Let them try to ban me this time for calling Reed an anti-mormon for his actions and ideology (even though before I gave long and rational argument as to why it was so per his own comments), and not show themselves as the double standardized and substand they can be. Edited October 9, 2011 by ldsfaqs
jskains Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 What amazes me is that the "critics" (I don't want to offend anyone), believe because they have counter-arguments, that means the discussion is over. Counter-arguments are just that. Arguments. And some of us do not come to the same conclusions. I am still a believer in the missing papyrus. Personally, I do not feel this has been adequately refuted. But "critics" best response is just to call me a tired idiot, and leave it at that..... *Sigh*
Mike Reed Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 All I said is that there is nothing new. And based on what BYU professor Bill Hamblin reported, I was right. So what is the big deal? Why all the animosity. Why brand me an anti-Mormon? The phrase "Protest too much" comes to mind. 1
Mike Reed Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Kicking Anti-Mormon Butt since 1984Banning people since 2006.LOL! Classic. Thx Skylla. Edited October 9, 2011 by Mike Reed
wenglund Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 I am disappointed not to see more pre-access well poisoning. There once was a time when threads would go for 30 pages or more prior to some of the critical participants having viewed the material they so quickly dismiss. I long for the good o'l days of uniformed apoplexy. [cry]Thanks, -Wade Englund-
jskains Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Hmm.. Mr. Reed.. Did you actually tattle? Interesting.
Mike Reed Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Jskains, The report feature has a purpose. If you don't like it, feel free to express your concern to the moderators. Calling me a tattle-tale isn't going to get you anywhere. It will only make you a violator of the forum's harassment rule, and therefore provide good grounds for another report.Wade. Pre-access well poisoning? I simply said that the DVD appears to have nothing new in it. And according to Dr. Hamblin, I was right. So what exactly is the problem? I am sure you and others see value in reaffirming the faith by providing a synopsis of apologetic arguments that have (seemingly) survived critique. But you can understand why such a movie would have little value to a person like me, can't you? No offence of Kevin Barney, David Bokovoy, and Mike Ash, or course. Again... I have high respect for these fine gents. I guess I am just a meat and potatoes kind of guy. Does anyone of FAIR worry that (since there is nothing new in the video, according to Hamblin) people watching these videos might get a false sense of security, only to be disappointed once again?
wenglund Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Wade. Pre-access well poisoning? I simply said that the DVD appears to have nothing new in it. And according to Dr. Hamblin, I was right.... Mike,If the shoe doesn't fit, don't be intent on wearing it. My comment didn't have you specifically in mind.Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited October 10, 2011 by wenglund
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