Disenchantment Of The World

[Maidservant]

I don't know that your exact frame or paradigm nor the terminology you use is a constant, nor useful for everyone. However, I think what underlies what you are trying to seek for is not only valid, but more valid than the blindness we live in, in this mortal world. But I have my way of understanding it that would approach it a little differently than you are choosing to do.

But here are some things, I'm sure you've already noticed them.

Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." Here God uses key words to direct matter. This could also be thought of as magical (for those who want to), or thought of as a software program that runs without hardware (for those who want to and which we realize is going to be possible soon enough even in our society, we direct computers etc through voice). Calling it magic or software doesn't matter, except maybe for helping us be in awe of it. The power of language coupled with word (the voice box causing frequencies in the the molecules of the air) . . . the physical, mechanical universe has been programmed to respond to these things, if we have the keys or knowledge or skill.

Joshua chapter 6 Where the children of Israel use sound in a very directed way--with silence, with rythmic ram's horns, the sound of feet, and a final shout--in order to undo the molecules or at least the mechanics of the walls of Jericho

And here is a favorite of us all:

D&C 121:45-6

"the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven . . . thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever."

Here we learn many, many, many things, not least a more accurate understanding of the doctrine of the celestial kingdom. But also we can see here that the human being is to become an adept by degrees. Adept at what? Priesthood. This can only be done with sacrifice, purity, charity, truth. But the universe is to become subject to us in an awesome way, gradual, inexorable way.

If you are interested I can provide other verses that show similar items, or some may have their verses they would like to share.

[Maidservant]

In fact, the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about the possession and wielding of power, eternal power . . . to over come the villain of the universe. But power is not what people think that it is, in the world.

Does power come by exalting oneself? No. It comes by descending and becoming a servant.

There are so many things that are magical and "secret". They are not secret in the gospel, but they are secret or counterintuitive to the power the world seeks after and thinks (mistakenly) that it has.

[Nathair/|\]

Nathair! Hi.

Thanks for your sincere and provocative thoughts. I doubt we should single out Descarte as a central villain of singular influence. However, I think you are "on to" some thing. After this life, especially if we make it to God, I think we may find that the mechanics of this world require constant attention. Our age has mistaken the consistent and awe-inspiring effect of the knowledge of this constant attention, for immutable and impersonal laws that supposedly govern a purposeless and uncaring universe. Describing his life before growing up and before his conversion to the Catholic faith, G.K. Chesterton spoke up in regards to the "Ethics of Elfland":---Orthodoxy, G.K. Chesterton, Image Books, 1959, p. 62

A Blessed Lord's Day, the Third of Easter, 2011 AD to you Nathair.

3DOP

I apologize for not thinking of this earlier, but some of the things I have learned suggest that there actually needs to be two magicians, one male and one female.

[Questing Beast]

That's cryptic. You are referring to the "god and consort" concept I take it. Very old. Very pagan. Very "this world only" stuff. It doesn't address anything about existence in the first place. My mind sort of wearies of just concerning itself with here. If I was immortal and stuck here I would feel differently about that. But as I am here today and gone tomorrow, I have this nagging need to consider my eternal mind; which cannot be unduly concerned with this planet. My full, authentic self exists elsewhere. And I am only "visiting"....

[Nathair/|\]

That's cryptic. You are referring to the "god and consort" concept I take it. Very old. Very pagan. Very "this world only" stuff. It doesn't address anything about existence in the first place. My mind sort of wearies of just concerning itself with here. If I was immortal and stuck here I would feel differently about that. But as I am here today and gone tomorrow, I have this nagging need to consider my eternal mind; which cannot be unduly concerned with this planet. My full, authentic self exists elsewhere. And I am only "visiting"....

Paganism is one of the triggers of my thought process, I confess, but it goes beyond that. What do you know of Yin and Yang?

[Mudcat]

I apologize for not thinking of this earlier, but some of the things I have learned suggest that there actually needs to be two magicians, one male and one female.

Though it wouldn't fit my own Ev paradigm well. I think there is something to be said for Mother Earth.

[Nathair/|\]

Though it wouldn't fit my own Ev paradigm well. I think there is something to be said for Mother Earth.

I'm thinking more along the lines of Eternal Marriage here, but yes, Mother Earth is a powerful figure.

[Nathair/|\]

That's cryptic. You are referring to the "god and consort" concept I take it. Very old. Very pagan. Very "this world only" stuff. It doesn't address anything about existence in the first place. My mind sort of wearies of just concerning itself with here. If I was immortal and stuck here I would feel differently about that. But as I am here today and gone tomorrow, I have this nagging need to consider my eternal mind; which cannot be unduly concerned with this planet. My full, authentic self exists elsewhere. And I am only "visiting"....

Though it wouldn't fit my own Ev paradigm well. I think there is something to be said for Mother Earth.

If you are familiar with fractals, I'm kind of scaling up the pattern: from the practices in magical lodges that require a balance between male and female energies through the pagan goddess and god as consorts and source of fertility to Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, suggesting that both of them are necessary to keep the cosmos in balance.

[LeSellers]

You are referring to the "god and consort" concept I take it. Very old. Very pagan.

Paganism is a very apostate form of the Gospel of Jeus Christ as revealed to Adam and Noah.

Lehi

[Questing Beast]

Paganism is one of the triggers of my thought process, I confess, but it goes beyond that. What do you know of Yin and Yang?

That's about it. Something to do with "perfect balance". Only what the Internet "tells" me ....

[Mudcat]

If you are familiar with fractals, I'm kind of scaling up the pattern: from the practices in magical lodges that require a balance between male and female energies through the pagan goddess and god as consorts and source of fertility to Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, suggesting that both of them are necessary to keep the cosmos in balance.

I understand the concept of a fractal, if your talking about something like the Mandelbrot set. But I wouldn't have a clue about the application of one or how it relates to this sort of thing.

But I think if the concept of a Heavenly Mother is part of a persons beliefs, then I see no way that She could not be necessary. What do you mean, when you say "keep the cosmos in balance"? In the sense of what is the actual thing being balanced. I wouldn't think it would be good and evil, but don't know exactly what you mean, unless you are talking about the balancing of the cosmos as a whole.

I guess what I am getting at, in relation to their roles, is what in the cosmos is it, that does need to be balanced?

[Nathair/|\]

Paganism is a very apostate form of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as revealed to Adam and Noah.

Lehi

They are missing the most vital principles, but I think there are some lesser but still important principles preserved in pagan traditions that were lost in the Abrahamic traditions.

That's about it. Something to do with "perfect balance". Only what the Internet "tells" me ....

It reflects complementary opposing forces, eg. male/female, sun/moon, serpent/eagle, day/night, etc. These forces must be in balance or the system breaks down.

I understand the concept of a fractal, if your talking about something like the Mandelbrot set. But I wouldn't have a clue about the application of one or how it relates to this sort of thing.

But I think if the concept of a Heavenly Mother is part of a persons beliefs, then I see no way that She could not be necessary. What do you mean, when you say "keep the cosmos in balance"? In the sense of what is the actual thing being balanced. I wouldn't think it would be good and evil, but don't know exactly what you mean, unless you are talking about the balancing of the cosmos as a whole.

I guess what I am getting at, in relation to their roles, is what in the cosmos is it, that does need to be balanced?

At this stage in my experience, it's like I'm approaching the tree of life through a fog. I can see it's there and something of the shape and glory, but I don't quite have the picture yet. But consider the sun. If gravity were much weaker relative to the energy released by the hydrogen fusing into helium, it would explode or dissipate. If gravity were much stronger, it would collapse. Either way, the Earth would be in a lot of trouble.

[LeSellers]

[Apostate pagan traditions] are missing the most vital principles [of the Gospel of Jesus Christ], but I think there are some lesser but still important principles preserved in pagan traditions that were lost in the Abrahamic traditions.

That's exactly what I meant.

Over the years, I have tried (not very diligently) to recognize the pieces they have got right. They all seem to have a father god, a son, and a host. Most have an incarnation, and some sort of resurrection (if only for the son). They seem to grasp the concept of opposition in all things being an eternal principle. Most have the idea of pre-existing matter in regards to the creation. Many have a female consort(s) (whose worship always seems to be the basis for the vilest of sexual perversions—which is, in my mind, the fundamental reason we do not worship our Mother: Father has seen what happens when we do, and He is not pleased).

Lehi

[Nathair/|\]

A couple of weeks ago, I was assigned to write a paper on the collapse of Èire's Celtic Tiger economy. I included the following as one of the causes:

I think one other factor needs to beconsidered, however. In a huge slap to the face of Èirù, theÈireannach goddess of sovereignty, amajor highway was planned right through the Tara-Skryne Valley, the heart of her sacred landscape. The brilliant Damh the Bard wrote a song which,while specifically about another highway through another sacred landscape,beautifully expresses the damage done.

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Or at least the mediator for sovereignty between the Irish people and an Cailleachna Beara, the goddess of the earth, itself.

[Nathair/|\]

There are multitudes of spirits in the world, Everything we see, and have a knowledge of has got its own particular spirit, or else there is no life in it (D&C 88:6-13, 41) The spirit constitutes the life of everything we see. Is there life in these rocks, and mountains? There is. Then there is a spirit peculiarly adapted to those rocks and mountains. We mark the progress of the growth of grass, flowers , and trees. There is a spirit nicely adapted to the various productions of the vegetable kingdom. There is also a spirit to the different ores of the mineral kingdom and to every element in existence. And there is a spirit in the earth(Moses 3:4-5)

(Teachings of President Brigham Young 3:240-241, Feb 12, 1854) Quoted in Stratton, Richard D.: Kindness to Animals and Caring for the Earth: Selections from the Sermons and Writings of Latter-day Saint Church Leaders.

[DarkScythe]

that is cool, Nathair.

[Nathair/|\]

that is cool, Nathair.

Thank you. The book is great. It's a collection of quotes from Church leaders and people like Hugh Nibley.

[Nathair/|\]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rH2PkjBFaU

[Nathair/|\]

Why should the enemy seek to pollute? There was an early Christian teaching, reported by Eusebius, that the evil spirits, being forever deprived of physical bodies, constantly go about in the world jealously seeking to defile and corrupt such bodies, glorying in foulness and putrefaction as they "move about in thick, polluted air," and make charnel houses and garbage dumps their favorite haunts,¹¹ until the earth cries out: "Wo, wo is me, the mother of men. . . . When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me?" (Moses 7:48). Once in reply to that cry a vast outpouring of waters purged the earth, quite literally, of its filthiness.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=49&chapid=302

[Nathair/|\]

This same reverence, which the Greeks called aidos, for Brigham Young extends to all things; for if life is holy, for him "there is not a particle of element which is not filled with life, and all space is filled with element."⁸⁷"Well, how many lives are there in this grain of corn? They are innumerable, and this same infinity is manifest through all the creations of God."⁸⁸ "There is life in all matter, throughout the vast extent of all the eternities; it is in the rock, the sand, the dust, in water, air."⁸⁹

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=49&chapid=302