Blood Attonement

[thesometimesaint]

Mordecai:

It is highly unlikely that one of those infamous people heard the Gospel in this life. So it is possible for him to repent and receive whatever blessings Gods has for him. In the BoM we have Lamanite king Lamoni who repents of the killings he did.

The other is still alive, but the conditions of his confinement pretty much preclude acceptance of the Restored Gospel.

I don't believe God holds those that are mentally ill responsible for their actions.

[Alla]

So, what is restitution exactly, cinepro? If I asked my neighbor for a screwdriver but I never gave it to him and he later dies, since I can't give the screwdriver back to him in this life, am I ispo facto unforgivable?

If you din't give him a screwdriver because you decided that you want to keep it, than you are a thief. You have to repent. You have to give it back. If you really repented and decided to give him back but he died, than you will not keep it for yourself any way. You will give it to his wife, or to his children, or to another neigbour. You won't keep it for yourself. I would do that. I would never keep it to myself. Sort of restitution.

But we talk about murder. It is much more serious. The only way to make restitution(sort of) to accept IN YOUR HEART your own death penalty. Is it easy thing to do? I

And if this simple sin doesn't prevent me getting to the Celestial Kingdom because Christ's sacrifice can make me completely clean even when I can't repay sins in this life' date=' of what use is Blood Atonement?

[/quote']

Blood Atonement for the purpose that we can repent. And repentence for the purpose that we can be forgiven.

I believe that Atonement is conditional when we talk about our personal sins. We repent we are forgiven, we don't repent we are not forgiven. But because RESTITUTION is part of repentence than if we can not make this step(there is NOTHING we can do) our repentance is not complete. And you understand this. But person did at leat other 4 steps(ALL s/he could do).

And now I will tell you what is the use of Atonement(as I believe). If there was no Atonement and I did my 4 steps, but couldn't make restitution, I would go to hell for all eternity. But because of the Atonement I will not go to hell if in my repentence I did ALL I could, but I couldn't make restitution.

I will be forgiven. And because God is not only Mercy but Justice also, I will go to another GLORY, I will get what I DESERVED.

But at least I will not go to hell(outter darkness). This is the USE OF THE ATONEMENT.

[erichard]

I was talking to a fellow worker, and he told of a man who raped his own daughters nightly whenever he felt the urge. He invited friends over to also have their way with his 8 year old daughter.

...

Has anyone reported this to the police?

IMHO people like this should have a bullet help empty out their skull of what little brains they have. A comedian once quipped that if you personally even had thoughts of sexually molesting a child, you should do the world a favor and eat a bullet for the team.

How is my position any different than Brigham's Blood Attonement concept? I don't see this as a problem. I do believe there are crimes for which are so horrible and ugly that only your blood hitting dirt could even give you a chance of redemption.

Thoughts?

I tend to believe that the true concept of Blood Atonement is taught in this New Testament scripture:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. --1 Cor 5

Here a church member was fornicating with his father's wife. (Probably not his own mother.) Paul determines that he should be delivered over to the adversary "for the destruction of the flesh"-- in the hopes that his spirit may be saved in the day of judgment.

This man had the true Spirit to some degree, and yet rebelled against it. Yet in being destroyed in the flesh he still could possibly gain forgiveness.

D&C 132:26 says something similar:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

As TSS pointed out, King Lamoni and others were forgiven of murders they did before they received the Spirit. But they had to remain totally committed to avoid anything that could draw them back into murdering-- even to allow others to kill them rather than fight back.

If the man in question simply has never received the Spirit enough to recognize his error, I suspect he can be forgiven by Christ if he really did repent, and avoided it at all costs.

But I would think most people who grow up in our society have enough of the light of Christ to know better. So the solution would be being destroyed in the flesh, and maybe he could be forgiven.

Richard

[jskains]

Has anyone reported this to the police?

The kids are now all adults and I believe the father is now dead.

JMS