Moroni 10:4

[Guest Just Curious]

Suppose ( and I know this has happened to people before so it is not hypothetical) someone takes the "Moroni 10:4 Challenge" and prays earnestly and sincerely and recieves the answer that it is not correct...what does that mean. Does it mean the answer is wrong? Does it mean it is wrong for that person to join the church at this time? Does it mean the church is wrong? Is there any "official" answer about this other than to recommend to the person to pray again until they do recieve the answer that it is right? I am not trying to start a fight I am trying to find out what is the most correct answer in regards to what the church thinks...

Thanks (no Dan don't read anything into this....I speak plainly and mean what I say there is no need to analyze this)

[Skyler J Collins]

I believe that if the challenge is followed correctly, and the individual is open to personal revelation, that the answer will be recognized as such, and correct.

[Guest Just Curious]

I believe that if the challenge is followed correctly, and the individual is open to personal revelation, that the answer will be recognized as such, and correct.

I'm a little confused Skyler...could you explain this a little more clearly please?

[rick b]

I have talked to many MM'S and told them I prayed about this. They ask what were you told, I say I was told JS was a false prophet and the LDS church was wrong. The responce I recive Are either I was not truly sincere Or I was listing to the devil. Give me a break, as far as I am concernded It is either execpt or your not really sincere. What about all the other religions out there. most claim they prayed or had their prayer answered. does this mean lds are wrong because some muslim believes allah answered his prayer, therefore the muslim denys the LDS church and feel allaw is the way. all religions cannot be correct. so over all prayer is not the way to know if a beliefe is correct or not.

other waise every religious person is correct. even christian sciestients believe they are gods right know. thats strange, if there gods why is the world in such bad shape?. where is there power to save. Rick b

[Skyler J Collins]

I believe that if the challenge is followed correctly, and the individual is open to personal revelation, that the answer will be recognized as such, and correct.

I'm a little confused Skyler...could you explain this a little more clearly please?

Which part confuses you? I don't feel like lecturing.

[Tetraforce]

I have talked to many MM'S and told them I prayed about this.

How long did you pray, how long did you wait for an answer, did you read the Book of Mormon? Just advice if you are still trying. For some reason I doubt you read the Book of Mormon.

[Scott Gordon]

I think the first mistake come from the LDS side. They often say to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. That isn't what the scripture says to do. It asks a lot more. (Study, think about how God deals with his children etc.) Then after you do those things you should pray.

If someone sincerely believes they have received a "no," I think it is important that the LDS respect that.

Scott

[Alan]

Have you noticed that Moroni says we should pray to find out if it is not true?

I believe if you pray and ask if the book and it teachings are true you will get a confirming witness. However, the problem arises if it is a loaded question. If you ask God if the book is true but really mean in the LDS church true, God will answer the question you meant rather than the one you asked.

I believe the book is true but is independent of the LDS church. There are of course, a number of churches who accept the Book of Mormon. They can't all be true.

Or can they?

Alan

[G'S ARMY]

My brief answer is this:

If you have, to your satisfaction, studied and prayed, and prayed and studied, and have grown closer to the Lord and a sincere knowledge, a testimony of your own, and you get a sincere answer that the church is not true, then what other question do you have? What would make you continue investigating? What does it matter what LDS give for a reason for your revelation?

.........just walk away.

[tubaloth]

I thought this was asked on here before?

Maybe about 3 weeks ago? I remember talking about the same things.

The question that needs to be asked is what is a

[Guest Just Curious]

Thanks tubaloth, that is probably the best answer (makes the most sense) that I have ever seen about that question, I appreciate it

[rick b]

Hey TF, just to set the recored straight, I have read all four standered works, plus I own an oringal D and C with the lectures and have read those also, even though I understand the LDS do not view them as scripture.

[Jigglysaint]

Have you noticed that Moroni says we should pray to find out if it is not true?

I believe if you pray and ask if the book and it teachings are true you will get a confirming witness. However, the problem arises if it is a loaded question. If you ask God if the book is true but really mean in the LDS church true, God will answer the question you meant rather than the one you asked.

I believe the book is true but is independent of the LDS church. There are of course, a number of churches who accept the Book of Mormon. They can't all be true.

Or can they?

Alan

Your statement: Is it not true?

[YH8]

Hey TF, just to set the recored straight, I have read all four standered works, plus I own an oringal D and C with the lectures and have read those also, even though I understand the LDS do not view them as scripture.

Did you read for understanding or to find fault?

[mnn727]

I personally believe that God will not set us up to lose. Since God is all-knowing, he knows if we have the capacity to "endure to the end" Perhaps if he knows will will not;obey His commands, live up to our covenants, endure to the end, He may give us the answer to (basically) find an easier Church.

Thats my personal beliefs and certainly NOT a doctrine or teaching of the Church

There are of course those that ask without being willing to actually follow through, again, I personally don't believe God will give us the answer unless we are willing to actually change our lives

[pseudogratix]

Moroni 10:4, What does it mean?

For starters refer to "A Witness of the Book of Mormon comes from Almighty God - Moroni 10:1-7" @ http://gospelink.com/library/doc?book_doc_id=267041 ( Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 4, Joseph Fielding McConkie, Robert L. Millet)

[jana at jade house]

I believe if you pray and ask if the book and it teachings are true you will get a confirming witness. However, the problem arises if it is a loaded question. If you ask God if the book is true but really mean in the LDS church true, God will answer the question you meant rather than the one you asked.

Thanks Allan for this thought. I did not know I did not know this until I just read it and thought, oh.

May I ask this question? I wonder if you are sort of a sideways Saint who puts up with the Church because it is the only way you can get to those things which you know are true?

Or have you left the institution but still are faithful in spirit?

This are not accusitory questions: I feel impelled to ask.

I certainly do not wish to lift the skirt of your privacy. You have no need to answer.

Jana

[Skyler J Collins]

I believe if you pray and ask if the book and it teachings are true you will get a confirming witness. However, the problem arises if it is a loaded question. If you ask God if the book is true but really mean in the LDS church true, God will answer the question you meant rather than the one you asked.

Thanks Allan for this thought. I did not know I did not know this until I just read it and thought, oh.

May I ask this question? I wonder if you are sort of a sideways Saint who puts up with the Church because it is the only way you can get to those things which you know are true?

Or have you left the institution but still are faithful in spirit?

This are not accusitory questions: I feel impelled to ask.

I certainly do not wish to lift the skirt of your privacy. You have no need to answer.

Jana

He's not a member of the LDS Church, rather, the Community of Christ church.

[jana at jade house]

Having never questioned the truths of the doctrines in the Book of Mormon, I never took the Moroni Challenge. Alan provoked me to reread the verse in context and indeed, the challenge is to measure the truth of the Book against all the mercies since Adam,etc. Now, I know that Christ's message is Heavenly Father's message and it has come to us in more than one way since the Fall. I believe that there is only one way for me to work out those truths properly on earth. That is through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This is what Elder Oaks was speaking about in the quote supplied above. (Thank you, nice talk.)

"With real intent" means that if the Holy Ghost witnesses the truth of the book, the prayerful seeker is committed to act on that witness by being baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I acted upon my witness by putting up with all the warts and pimples of Christ's perfect organization here on earth, that is lead by people just like me, human. I have continued making covenants including Temple Endowment. This endowment is pretty serious eternal business, not to be undertaken lightly. If I break my committment, my repentence is a whole different level than that of someone not yet so endowed. I repeat, this is serious eternal business.

So here is your answer from me: If indeed you get a negative or no or nothing response from your sincere request, then you have no witness, and you have no need to be hastily baptised into the Church of Christ, for it is better that you remain in your sins than to pretend and be baptised without witness. A person that has no contrite spirit, no broken heart is not ready for the rebirth. The truths in the Book of Mormon are essentially no different than in any other Scripture, for truth is truth. Recognition of that truth is the initial witness which brings us to Christ. Members who witness the truth have a hard time imagining that others cannot see it, cannot sense it, cannot know it. Therefore, you get the deflective answers,perhaps you are not listening, you are asking the wrong question, etc.

The responsibility of taking on the name of Jesus is intense. If a person is not prepared for it, the consequesces are eternal.

Too often, even we LDS forget the mantle of responsibility that lies upon our shoulders.

Jana