BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) is it a separate group entirely from the CoC or do all the members have CoC membership and affiliation?The Branch I associate myself with consider themselves members of the RLDS Church, but many of their membership records are probably still counted in the Community of Christ membership file. People baptized since they began meeting as a Restoration Branch (myself for example) have been confirmed as members of the RLDS Church, though our files are only on record in the Branch and are transferrable to other Restoration Branches.Are your leaders the CoC leaders, and you just happen to be out of harmony with their current stance, and you are more fundamentalist?The leaders of the Community of Christ are not our leaders. The faithful Priesthood holders within the Restoration Branches are currently the shepherds of the flock.Or are your leaders entirely different leaders of an entirely separate sect now?No, the Branch I attend is waiting for the Lord to cleanse the hierarchy of the Community of Christ and set the RLDS Church back into order. We don't believe there will be another church organized such as in the case of the Remnant Church.If we were to say hypothetically that the RLDS was the continuation of the true church originally rather than the "Brighamite/LDS", what then makes your branch the true branch rather than the CoC?...We believe our Branch is simply one Branch of the true church because we can trace our authority back to the original ordinations of Oliver and Joseph, and we follow the original doctrines set forth by Joseph Smith and his son Joseph III. Edited March 30, 2011 by BookofMormonLuvr
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I see a question within there I didn't answer. Paraphrasing...Are you more fundamentalist?Yes, we reject the innovations in doctrines brought into the church by recent and current leaders...We don't believe in..- Women in the Priesthood- Open Sacrament- Rejecting the historicity of the Book of Mormon- Accepting baptisms performed in other churches- Ordaining practicing homosexuals- Rejecting the idea of Zion being a literal place- etc..(Stupid editing program keeps messing the post up) Edited March 31, 2011 by BookofMormonLuvr
SkepticTheist Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Ok, so what does the CoC hierarchy think of your "Restoration Branches"?Why is it that you all do not seek affiliation in both organizations?Why is it that you think it is legitimate to be in a separate organization out of harmony with the brethren of the CoC?How is it that you believe you have authority to baptize out of harmony with CoC hierarchy?Why is it that you do not seek to draw away somebody from the CoC with keys of the priesthood to re-organize?Why is it that you do not seek to unite yourselves with other restorationist churches in order to get keys to reorganize, such as, say the Temple Lot church or Rigdonite Church?And furthermore, why not just seek a reunification with other restorationist Churches and form an entirely new RLDS and leave the CoC behind?What would it take to get your local priesthood leaders to seek that kind of reunification with other restorationist churches?If you do not consider the LDS a legitimate branch of the "true Church", what do you think of other restorationist branches that are not breakoffs of the LDS, but that are schisms from the early LDS before the saints went west, and so forth?What is your opinion of the Rigdonite Church?Or hey, why don't you just go join one of those restorationist Churches and leave the CoC behind for good? I don't get it.Is there something fundamental and so sacred about the original RLDS that you simply cannot part with it entirely?Is it the claim of succession from Joseph Smith's family that is the point?Sorry, but I have a lot of questions because I'm just trying to understand how you guys justify your existence, and why it is that you don't do what I would obviously think of if I were in your position. I mean, if you think it was legitimate to re-organize to begin with, then why not again? Is this something akin to why LDS didn't just give the priesthood to blacks until they got a revelation? Are you guys waiting for some sort of revelation to proceed? Are you waiting for some sort of sign from heaven for legitimacy?I mean, in the other thread, you talk so much of Lehi going off on his own as if personal revelation is enough. You say that you believe you are one of the branches of the true church. Well then, hadn't there ought to be others out there separate from the CoC? What are you waiting for then? Why not reorganize by seeking keys from other restorationist churches?Here is one wild thing I have thought of before, in a hypothetical situation if I were not LDS. I always wonder why in the world Martin Luther made up the priesthood of all believers. Why didn't he just go to Eastern Orthodoxy for his priesthood authority, since the Catholic Church excommunicated him? I have wondered, if I were not LDS, and didn't have a testimony, and I don't believe in Catholicism as legitimate, why would I not go to Eastern Orthodoxy? Similarly, why don't you guys look to some kind of other Christianity for keys or something?The Branch I associate myself with consider themselves members of the RLDS Church, but many of their membership records are probably still counted in the Community of Christ membership file. People baptized since they began meeting as a Restoration Branch (myself for example) have been confirmed as members of the RLDS Church, though our files are only on record in the Branch and are transferrable to other Restoration Branches.The leaders of the Community of Christ are not our leaders. The faithful Priesthood holders within the Restoration Branches are currently the shepherds of the flock.No, the Branch I attend is waiting for the Lord to cleanse the hierarchy of the Community of Christ and set the RLDS Church back into order. We don't believe there will be another church organized such as in the case of the Remnant Church.We believe our Branch is simply one Branch of the true church because we can trace our authority back to the original ordinations of Oliver and Joseph, and we follow the original doctrines set forth by Joseph Smith and his son Joseph III. Edited March 31, 2011 by SkepticTheist
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Holy Mackrel! It's 8:30 here and I about to lose internet access. Excuse me if I don't get to your questions until tomorrow.
SkepticTheist Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 No problem.Oh yeah, BTW, what about your claim to priesthood authority without the church. Does that figure in to your justifications for how you perform ordinances without CoC affiliation?Holy Mackrel! It's 8:30 here and I about to lose internet access. Excuse me if I don't get to your questions until tomorrow.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 I will begin to answer you second post. I will explain the beliefs of the Branches and also my personal opinions (as I am more open about some issue nd ideas then others). I will probably group a few into seperate post the organize things a bit...here goes (in next post)...
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 I'll start with these first...Ok, so what does the CoC hierarchy think of your "Restoration Branches"?I am sure they don't like us much, seeing as we don't accept their changes and have drawn away many members and tithing dollars.Why is it that you all do not seek affiliation in both organizations?Me personally? Why would I want my name associated with an organization (the CofC) whos current theological bent and Liberalism I don't agree with?Why is it that you think it is legitimate to be in a separate organization out of harmony with the brethren of the CoC?Because I believe the legimate RLDS Priesthood is now in the Restoration Branches.How is it that you believe you have authority to baptize out of harmony with CoC hierarchy?Because the Priesthood were called by God and ordained when the church was still in order. They have remained faithful to their callings and the doctrines of the Restoration. Why would they lose authority to baptize because the church leaders went into apostasy? If you were ordained an Elder by your Dad and he went into apostasy does that negate your calling if you have been faithful? God forbid.Why is it that you do not seek to draw away somebody from the CoC with keys of the priesthood to re-organize?The Lord will call His servant in his own due time, we just need to do our duty of preaching the Restored Gospel. I think too much focus has been spent on trying to figure out ways to "organize",that could have been spent on spreading the Restored Gospel.Why is it that you do not seek to unite yourselves with other restorationist churches in order to get keys to reorganize, such as, say the Temple Lot church or Rigdonite Church?Simple answer... because the Branches don't believe there is any authority outside of the RLDS Priesthood,and they don't believe there in any authority outside of theirs. If they did they would have united together years ago.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 Next set of questions...And furthermore, why not just seek a reunification with other restorationist Churches and form an entirely new RLDS and leave the CoC behind?As I explained earlier the Branch I associate with believes that the Lord will cleanse the CofC and set back in order the RLDS Church. I personally would have not problem with an association of Restoration churches, that accept each others baptisms, and ministry (up to the office of Elder)- as I have my own views of authority. What would it take to get your local priesthood leaders to seek that kind of reunification with other restorationist churches?A clear revelation to several Priesthood holders that that is the course they should follow. If you do not consider the LDS a legitimate branch of the "true Church", what do you think of other restorationist branches that are not breakoffs of the LDS, but that are schisms from the early LDS before the saints went west, and so forth?The Branch I attend will tell you they lack authority because they don't come through the Reorganization.I personally believe the true church exists in several of the modern Restoration churches, including yours. I believe we all have truth and we all have error and that those issue will be resolved when Zion is establsihed.What is your opinion of the Rigdonite Church?I believe they are an admiral bunch and I would love to attend one of their meetings or conferences someday. The church I have the most contact with outside of my Branch is the Church of Christ (Temple Lot).You will not meet a nicer, more dedicated, faithful group of people if you tried.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 3rd Set of questions...Or hey, why don't you just go join one of those restorationist Churches and leave the CoC behind for good? I don't get it.Again, I don't know if your are talking to me personally or to my Branch when you use "you". The CofC doesn't even register on my radar, I am fellowshipping with the Restoration Branches because of an expereince I had early on. Is this the end of my journey or just a step? Only the Lord knows. Is there something fundamental and so sacred about the original RLDS that you simply cannot part with it entirely?For me, not really. Like I said above, I am there because of an experience.a had about 10 years ago. But I am not opposed to the idea of minsterial authority being found in other Restoration churches.Is it the claim of succession from Joseph Smith's family that is the point?For many, yes. I tend to lean towards lineal succession, but I am not closed minded about it. And again, like I said, I believe the authority to administer the ordinances is found in various Restoration churches.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 I believe the rest of the post I am responding to is a bit redundant and the questions posed have been answered in my other answers. If you disagree, let me know and I will answer those also.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) No problem.Oh yeah, BTW, what about your claim to priesthood authority without the church. Does that figure in to your justifications for how you perform ordinances without CoC affiliation?I am not sure I understand this question...I believe the Priesthoood can exist outside of any church organization. So there is no issue with faithful Priesthood administering the ordinances of the Restored Gospel. Edited March 31, 2011 by BookofMormonLuvr
SkepticTheist Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks. That clarified things a lot for me as to what your thinking is.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Thanks. That clarified things a lot for me as to what your thinking is.Glad I could help. If you have any follow-up question, let me know.
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