How do you know if it is the Holy Spirit?

[LDSToronto]

I was discussing with an acquaintance about praying for wisdom and feeling the answer of the Holy Spirit, and she responded to me that what people think is a moving of the Holy Spirit can sometimes merely be an emotional experience that you have because you are looking for it. I wasn't sure what to say to her. I was told by missionaries that I spoke with to read the Book of Mormon and pray about its truth, but how can you really know if it is the Holy Spirit moving in you or merely an emotional experience?

I'm surprised this only got a passing mention in one post. Moroni 7:15-18:

For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him. And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

That's all you need to know.

H.

[Fly Fisherman]

There have been some great answers here, and I don't know if I can add a whole lot more.

But I love the concept of the Holy Spirit "piercing" through to our soul: "Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things..." D&C 85:6

Meaning, the Holy Spirit is more precise than other feelings. For example, if you had a piece of leather that you need to poke a hole through (maybe to sew or patch something) you would use a sharp needle rather than a dull object, such as a pencil. The Holy Spirit is like the needle, and emotions are like the pencil - both are elongated objects ending in a point, but the Holy Spirit "pierces" through to our soul and gets to our spirit whereas the imitations such as emotions are like the pencil - they cannot pierce through to the soul. This piercing is not meant to seem painful or uncomfortable, like poking yourself with a needle - but is meant to be "exact" or far more precise. And what does that "piercing" through to your soul do? It makes you a better person - you repent, you change, you treat others more kindly, you have compassion, etc. The Holy Spirit does this far more precise and exactly than emotions, etc.

[Deborah]

Every time I have experience with the Holy Spirit, I am left with a profoundly overwhelming feeling of

love for God and my fellow man. This may last several days, and it is forever etched in my memory.

I wish I could have that feeling all the time.

I heard a talk many years ago suggesting that this is how you know you are truly filled with the spirit (don't remember who or where but it was burned into my memory). I have had times like that as well and when I look even at strangers I feel an overwhelming love for them. Unfortunately it doesn't last forever, because the worldly things start interfering with the spiritual high.

I think one important way to distinguish when the Holy Ghost is influencing us is that the mind and heart are in sync. The Holy Ghost brings intelligence, which is light and truth and that involves not only feeling that warmth in our hearts, but a sharpness in our minds. Different ways the Holy Ghost has affected me: a total immediate knowledge that something was so right I shouted out loud for joy, a calm peaceful stillness that took away all fear and pain, an Ah-ha moment when a scripture I was reading or a lesson I was preparing brought a sudden insight into a truth I had missed before. And as mentioned above that overwhelming feeling of love for others.

[erichard]

...Would the BoM be considered adding to this book? I have such anxious tendencies to begin with, and finding the place that God wants me feels so taxing on me! I'm not sure where I am supposed to be!

Hi Lareliw,

Revelations 22:18 forbids "any man" from adding to the book of Revelations, or the Bible for that matter, but this verse puts no conditions upon God. Nowhere in the Bible it teach that God will never bring forth more of his words, or put other conditions upon God doing what He has done in the past.

John 16:12-13 on the other hands clearly promises MORE truth through the Holy Ghost when there are disciples ready for it. The Bible came to us through the same Holy Ghost.

A believer in the Bible should be very wary of the creeds of men that basically are "added" to the Bible in defiance of Rev 22:18 by defining what Bible terms mean, and condemning to hell, and sometimes to death, anyone who questions these creeds.

The fear of throwing off the creeds is deeply rooting in many Bible based traditions, after generations of seeing people cast from churches and even burned at the stake for rejecting them.

I have faith because of the Spirit that the Book of Mormon comes to us through the same gift that the Bible came. With all the divergent understandings of the Bible by churches and groups, it is easy for me to believe that truth coming from the same source as the Bible is what is needed, and always has been needed in all ages. That is why the Bible was not given all at once, it was given a book at a time over many generations.

The gift to bring forth books of oracles and translations was restored to Israel through the prophet Joseph Smith as part of the restoration of all things predicted in the Bible.

Richard

[LDS Guy 1986]

Hi Lareliw,

Revelations 22:18 forbids "any man" from adding to the book of Revelations, or the Bible for that matter,

How can a Revelations forbid someone from adding to something that didn't exist until long after John had written the Book of Revelation?

Rev 22:18 states clearly "THIS BOOK of prophecies" not all books ever written, but only that one book of prophecies the Book of Revelation.

The only reason why the Bible became closed is because men decided they didn't want other scriptures, tainting there hand picked volume of scriptures. The Bible is made by man several hundred years after Christ walked the Earth and there was testimonies and epistles that were excluded even though they had deep spiritual value. The Bible was made by men to keep the men who made it in power, I hope that one day God will bless his one true Church with the recovered manuscripts of the scriptures that man deemed should be canonized.

[surfmex]

Hi Lareliw,

I hope that I'm posting this correctly as I have never posted here before. I always just read the topics that are of interest to me without responding but in this case I felt that I could contribute something useful. There is a talk that Elder Jefferey R Holland gave in the Abril 6, 2008 General Conference that pretty much gives an answer to the Revelations 22:18 verse. He is one of the 12 Apostles of the church. I don't know what it is called exactly in English but it is called "Mis Palabras Jamas Cesan" in Spanish which could translate to "My WOrds never Cease". I live in a place called Bucerias in Mexico, right on the coast of the state of Nayarit and just 20 min north of Puerto Vallarta so we speak Spanish in my home... Here, I just found it on line for you. Here is the link http://lds.org/general-conference/2008/04/my-words-never-cease?lang=eng&query=Ensign+May+2008 I hope that this helps.

[erichard]

How can a Revelations forbid someone from adding to something that didn't exist until long after John had written the Book of Revelation?

...

Hi,

Well, do you think God is OK with "men" adding to other scripture besides the Book of Revelations that He brings forth?

The principle in Rev 22:18 is a correct principle, and it was earlier made clear in Deut. 4:2. It is a truth that can be applied to all scripture. Right?

God surely has the "copyright" on all revelation He gives to men, and men have no right to add to what He has His prophets bring forth. When men do add to it, He curses them.

Richard

[LDS Guy 1986]

Hi,

Well, do you think God is OK with "men" adding to other scripture besides the Book of Revelations that He brings forth?

The principle in Rev 22:18 is a correct principle, and it was earlier made clear in Deut. 4:2. It is a truth that can be applied to all scripture. Right?

God surely has the "copyright" on all revelation He gives to men, and men have no right to add to what He has His prophets bring forth. When men do add to it, He curses them.

Richard

Well I sure do, we have added to the D&C and Pearl of Great Price throughout the history of the Church and both of there books are considered scripture.

As far as the Bible, yes the JST added and restored lost truth to the KJV of the Bible, in fact the JS even edited and added to the Book of Revelations in the JST

[Lareliw]

Just had an awesome visual of praying and being clunked on the head by a 4x4. Brightened my day! I will keep in mind your additional questions, as I believe they are very valid.

Exercise faith that God can reveal it to you. Trust me. When it happens, you'll know. It's like getting hit over the head by a spiritual four by four. It's like pure intellect entering mind. You will find that your heart and mind are expanding. You will feel the power and Glory of God flow into you. When you know, you know. It's not just a feeling.

If you want additional confirmation: Does it draw you closer to God? Do you want to be more righteous because of it? Do you feel humbled? Do you feel full of love?

[Lareliw]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is JST?

Well I sure do, we have added to the D&C and Pearl of Great Price throughout the history of the Church and both of there books are considered scripture.

As far as the Bible, yes the JST added and restored lost truth to the KJV of the Bible, in fact the JS even edited and added to the Book of Revelations in the JST

[Lareliw]

So do you feel that the Bible is not valid scripture? Or just that it is incomplete? Depending on which Bible you use, there are a different number of books. I know the traditional Bible used by Catholics has additional books included that are excluded from other versions.

How can a Revelations forbid someone from adding to something that didn't exist until long after John had written the Book of Revelation?

Rev 22:18 states clearly "THIS BOOK of prophecies" not all books ever written, but only that one book of prophecies the Book of Revelation.

The only reason why the Bible became closed is because men decided they didn't want other scriptures, tainting there hand picked volume of scriptures. The Bible is made by man several hundred years after Christ walked the Earth and there was testimonies and epistles that were excluded even though they had deep spiritual value. The Bible was made by men to keep the men who made it in power, I hope that one day God will bless his one true Church with the recovered manuscripts of the scriptures that man deemed should be canonized.

[Lareliw]

Thank you very much for your reply it is much appreciated! I have saved the article and I will read it as soon as I am able! You write English incredibly well

Hi Lareliw,

I hope that I'm posting this correctly as I have never posted here before. I always just read the topics that are of interest to me without responding but in this case I felt that I could contribute something useful. There is a talk that Elder Jefferey R Holland gave in the Abril 6, 2008 General Conference that pretty much gives an answer to the Revelations 22:18 verse. He is one of the 12 Apostles of the church. I don't know what it is called exactly in English but it is called "Mis Palabras Jamas Cesan" in Spanish which could translate to "My WOrds never Cease". I live in a place called Bucerias in Mexico, right on the coast of the state of Nayarit and just 20 min north of Puerto Vallarta so we speak Spanish in my home... Here, I just found it on line for you. Here is the link http://lds.org/gener...Ensign+May+2008 I hope that this helps.

[livy111us]

This is a great article on the Revelation scripture:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Bible/%22Adding_to%22_or_%22taking_away_from%22

The verse often cited (as by Martin, above) is Revelation 22:18-19:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Critics claim that this verse states that the Bible is complete, and no other scripture exists or will be forthcoming.

However, the critics ignore that:

The book of Revelation was written prior to some of the other biblical books, and prior the Bible being assembled into a collection of texts. Therefore, this verse can only apply to the Book of Revelation, and not the Bible as a whole (some of which was unwritten and none of which was yet assembled together into 'the Bible'). While the traditional date of the book of Revelation is A.D. 95 or 96 (primarily based on a statement by Irenaeus), many scholars now date it as early as A.D. 68 or 69. The Gospel of John is generally dated A.D. 95-100. (For more information on the dating of Revelation, see Thomas B. Slater's Biblica article).

The New Testament is made up of first the four Gospels and then second the epistles of the apostles. Since the book of Revelation is neither a gospel nor an epistle, it was placed at the end of the canon in its own category. Therefore, John cannot have intended the last few sentences of Revelation to apply to the entire Bible, since he was not writing a 'final chapter' for the New Testament and since the Bible would not be completed and canonized for some centuries later.

Other scriptures (such as Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, and Proverbs 30:6) likewise forbid additions; were the critics' arguments to be self-consistent, they would have to then discard everything in the New Testament and much of the Old, since these verses predate "other scripture" added by God through later prophets.

Further evidence that Rev. 22:19 is not referring to the entire bible when it reads "words of the book of this prophecy" is found if one reads Revelation 1:3,11:

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand...Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

It is self evident that the book referred to at the very beginning of Revelation is the same book being referred to at the very end of Revelation. Everything that John saw and heard in between these two statements are the contents of that book.

Even if the passage in Revelation meant that no man could add to scripture; it does not forbid that God may, through a prophet, add to the Word of God. If this were not possible, then the Bible could never have come into existence.

Noted Biblical scholar Bart Ehrman wrote:

The very real danger that [New Testament] texts could be modified at will, by scribes who did not approve of their wording, is evident in other ways as well. We need always to remember that the copyists of the early Christian writings were reproducing their texts in a world in which there were not only no printing presses or publishing houses but also no such thing as copyright law. How could authors guarantee that their texts were not modified once put into circulation? The short answer is that they could not. That explains why authors would sometimes call curses down on any copyists who modified their texts without permission. We find this kind of imprecation already in one early Christian writing that made it into the New Testament, the book of Revelation, whose author, near the end of his text, utters a dire warning [quotes Revelation 22:18

[LDS Guy 1986]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is JST?

Joseph Smith Translation

[LDS Guy 1986]

So do you feel that the Bible is not valid scripture? Or just that it is incomplete? Depending on which Bible you use, there are a different number of books. I know the traditional Bible used by Catholics has additional books included that are excluded from other versions.

The Scriptures are valid writings from God, the men that composed the Bible cannon and falsely taught that the cannon ended with Revelations is the problem not the scriptures that they preserved.

Yes, the Bible is incomplete, there is many books referenced in the scriptures that we do not have, these lost scriptures will be restored when the time is right.

[Lareliw]

If the JST has added or removed information from the Book of Revelation, doesn't that qualify as "adding or removing" in the context spoken of in Revelation itself?

Joseph Smith Translation

[LeSellers]

If the JST has added or removed information from the Book of Revelation, doesn't that qualify as "adding or removing" in the context spoken of in Revelation itself?

No.

First, to deal with the question you did not ask, the cite in Revelation applies only to Revelation. So, the restoration of information to any other book does not meet the minimum requirement of the prohibition of John.

Second, the fact that John felt impressed to include that prohibition/warning is evidence that adding to or taking away from was a serious and persistent problem in the I and II. There are thousands of examples of such alterations in both sacred and secular works.

We Saints proceed from the premise that John's work was altered early on, and that the restoration of his words (intended meaning) was neither adding to nor taking from

[Lareliw]

Ah, that makes more sense. It is difficult to sort out the history of the Bible due to the various changes over the years, and the 367 AD end compilation of the "standard" cannon.

No.

First, to deal with the question you did not ask, the cite in Revelation applies only to Revelation. So, the restoration of information to any other book does not meet the minimum requirement of the prohibition of John.

Second, the fact that John felt impressed to include that prohibition/warning is evidence that adding to or taking away from was a serious and persistent problem in the I and II. There are thousands of examples of such alterations in both sacred and secular works.

We Saints proceed from the premise that John's work was altered early on, and that the restoration of his words (intended meaning) was neither adding to nor taking from

[Monster]

I was told by missionaries that I spoke with to read the Book of Mormon and pray about its truth, but how can you really know if it is the Holy Spirit moving in you or merely an emotional experience?

it is difficult to know. I think it is just a matter of choosing to believe the Holy Ghost is speaking to you.

[Kevin Christensen]

Ah, that makes more sense. It is difficult to sort out the history of the Bible due to the various changes over the years, and the 367 AD end compilation of the "standard" cannon.

Regarding the history of the Bible, you might find this essay enlightening and helpful. Margaret Barker's "Text and Context," a study of the transmission of the Hebrew canon.

http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/TextAndContext.pdf

Margaret has also written book-length commentary on Revelation.

Also, in my MDD profile, I've placed a dropbox link to a pdf of my "A Model of Mormon Spiritual Experience" essay, from which the list of "answer to prayer" references came.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[Lareliw]

Sounds very interesting I will most definitely have a read

Regarding the history of the Bible, you might find this essay enlightening and helpful. Margaret Barker's "Text and Context," a study of the transmission of the Hebrew canon.

http://www.margaretb...tAndContext.pdf

Margaret has also written book-length commentary on Revelation.

Also, in my MDD profile, I've placed a dropbox link to a pdf of my "A Model of Mormon Spiritual Experience" essay, from which the list of "answer to prayer" references came.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[Palerider]

If the JST has added or removed information from the Book of Revelation, doesn't that qualify as "adding or removing" in the context spoken of in Revelation itself?

If Joseph was a prophet and was (by revelation) truly restoring something that had gone missing then the answer is "No". If he was not a prophet then the answer is "yes".