Lamanites, Promised land, and Land of liberty

[SkepticTheist]

I think before accusing of double standards, one needs to eliminate second and third hand reports since the dedicatory prayers would count as firsthand. Then there is the issue of whether the nonprayer comments were given in circumstances that would indicate those making them understood them to be inspired as they would have with the prayers.

IOW, you need to make sure that those making the comments see the comments as equivalent before assuming they are equivalent yourself and thus open to an accusation of doublestandard. Dedicatory prayers are commonly accepted as inspired among believers and are described as such by church leadership, can this be demonstrated for the other comments?

UMM. Actually, the Mesoamericanist methodology that I happen to agree with is to use no statements of prophets and to confine one's self to the Book of Mormon text. Therefore I say this is a double standard because this is methodologically unacceptable according to the established Mesoamericanist methodology of no revelation outside the BOM in geography.

Ed

[brightpath]

Do you think that the Jaredites were Israelites?

Jaredites were from the chosen seed. They were Hebrews from the birthrights seed of Shem.

[LeSellers]

Jaredites were from the chosen seed. They were Hebrews from the birthrights seed of Shem.

Sorry, they were not "Hebrews", although they were from the seed of Shem.

Hebrews did not exist until many centuries after the Jaredites left Asia. No one is making the argument that Abram/Abraham was the first Hebrew, but he is the first known to have carried the label. "Hebrew" means "one from beyond the river" (probably the Euphrates, possibly the Nile) [from Latin Hebraeus, from Greek Hebraios, from Aramaic `ibhray, from Hebrew `ibhr?: one from beyond (the river)]. In Shem's day such a designation would have been unnecessary, since they were all on one side of the river. There was no such rubric at the time of the tower of Babel, either.

If you have information on there being "Hebrews" known earlier than Abram, I would be interested in seeing it.

Lehi

[brightpath]

Sorry, they were not "Hebrews", although they were from the seed of Shem.

Hebrews did not exist until many centuries after the Jaredites left Asia. No one is making the argument that Abram/Abraham was the first Hebrew, but he is the first known to have carried the label. "Hebrew" means "one from beyond the river" (probably the Euphrates, possibly the Nile) [from Latin Hebraeus, from Greek Hebraios, from Aramaic `ibhray, from Hebrew `ibhr?: one from beyond (the river)]. In Shem's day such a designation would have been unnecessary, since they were all on one side of the river. There was no such rubric at the time of the tower of Babel, either.

If you have information on there being "Hebrews" known earlier than Abram, I would be interested in seeing it.

Lehi

Shem was the great high priest or the prince of peace. He tried to establish the order like the city of Enoch. Eber was a descendant of Shem. This is where the name came from. Please read "the upright or correct book" as known by the Jews or "The Book of Jasher as known to the Gentiles.

[LeSellers]

Shem was the great high priest or the prince of peace. He tried to establish the order like the city of Enoch.

I have held just this thing. However, it has nothing at all to do with whether people prior to Abraham, and the Jaredites in particular, were called "Hebrews".

Eber was a descendant of Shem.

Indeed, but were the Jaredites descendants of Eber? We do not know. Moreover, although I believe it to be so, we're equally ignorant of whether the Jaredites were even descendants of Shem. There is no evidence, and certainly no proof, of the ancestry of Jared and his brother.

This is where the name came from.

But you have yet to show that Jared was a son of Eber, you have not shown that anyone was called a Hebrew prior to Abram.

Until you do the first, you cannot validly claim that Jared and his company were "Hebrews", even if you can demonstrate the second. Until you do the second, you cannot claim that Abram was not the first "Hebrew", and thus the Jaredites could not be, either.

Lehi

[brightpath]

Shem is/was Melquizedek his seed continued the chosen lineage and the priesthood right. Ham's seed was cursed to the priesthood and Japheth's seed sprang the Gentile nations. So the Jaradites came from Shem's seed. Another clue is the title page of the BOM second paragraph: An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven