Sin

[TAO]

Is the blood of Jesus a remission of all sins compare to animal scafices of OT sins??

Heb:10:3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Heb:10:4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb:10:5: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Heb:10:6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Heb:10:7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Heb:10:8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Heb:10:9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Heb:10:10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

one love

Read verse 16:

This is the ^acovenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their ^bminds will I write them;

and verse 26:

For if we ^asin ^bwilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

and verse 29:

Of how much sorer ^apunishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done ^bdespite unto the Spirit of grace?

The blood of Jesus does not cover willful sinners. Even those who have already been sanctified.

What is a willful sinner, but one who does not heed the promptings of the spirit.

It is possible, as shown in verse 26 and 29, to sin after sanctification and knowledge.

[evangelist]

Read verse 16:

and verse 26:

and verse 29:

The blood of Jesus does not cover willful sinners. Even those who have already been sanctified.

What is a willful sinner, but one who does not heed the promptings of the spirit.

It is possible, as shown in verse 26 and 29, to sin after sanctification and knowledge.

Have you notice in those verses it is a singular sin not sins plural??

So Hebrews 10 is about the acception or rejection of Jesus and that is the one sin no one should never reject or renounce!

I did a one year study on Hebrews and specially Hebrews 10 was my favorite and the chapter I mastered the most scholarship in one complete year!

I am so glad to go through this with you and other who have interpretate it in error, because of lack of knowledge.

one love

[TAO]

Have you notice in those verses it is a singular sin not sins plural??

Read the verse I pointed out. It is singular because there be one sacrifice, an infinite and eternal sacrifice. But our willful sinning will remove us from being able to be saved from this sacrifice.

So Hebrews 10 is about the acception or rejection of Jesus and that is the one sin no one should never reject or renounce!

Read the verses I pointed out. The only unforgivable sin be the denying of the Holy Ghost under knowledge. The one that is nigh close to be forgiven of is the shedding of innocent blood under knowledge. But all sins under knowledge remove Jesus's sacrifice from you until you repent. Again, read those verses.

I did a one year study on Hebrews and specially Hebrews 10 was my favorite and the chapter I mastered the most scholarship in one complete year!

I am so glad to go through this with you and other who have interpretate it in error, because of lack of knowledge.

one love

I have not seen what you think is erring in my interpretation. You are only looking at part of Hebrews 10 right now - and the other part says the opposite of what you have been supposing. So please read it.

[staccato]

No, our sins are not already forgiven. And when we sin again, all of our previous sins return - the ones that we had been forgiven of before. Look at that D&C verse again. It's... interesting.

You do realize, don't you, that if you believe this.............every man will die in all of his sins because there is no one who is perfect.

[evangelist]

Read the verse I pointed out. It is singular because there be one sacrifice, an infinite and eternal sacrifice. But our willful sinning will remove us from being able to be saved from this sacrifice.

Read the verses I pointed out. The only unforgivable sin be the denying of the Holy Ghost under knowledge. The one that is nigh close to be forgiven of is the shedding of innocent blood under knowledge. But all sins under knowledge remove Jesus's sacrifice from you until you repent. Again, read those verses.

I have not seen what you think is erring in my interpretation. You are only looking at part of Hebrews 10 right now - and the other part says the opposite of what you have been supposing. So please read it.

That is your issue you are reading it , but you need to study it and meditiate on it for a while, rightly divide it with truth!

I did my one year home work on this so now please do yours.

At first I thought the same as you and even said the exact same things untill i did a study and research and after about three month i got the truth and it set me free!

i had to repent of m

[evangelist]

You do realize, don't you, that if you believe this.............every man will die in all of his sins because there is no one who is perfect.

NO! not if you are saved and born again you are like Jesus is in heaven now on earth before God, but men might have a different carnal view!

Sins should not be an issue if you are saved , but if you are not I can see the condemnations of sin you are in!

one love

[TAO]

You do realize, don't you, that if you believe this.............every man will die in all of his sins because there is no one who is perfect.

Thus why it is important for us to try to repent of all we can remember, and to do all we can do... then the Lord will do the rest.

All men die in some sins, but so is the next world a place for repenting of those sins which would be just to repent of.

[TAO]

That is your issue you are reading it , but you need to study it and meditiate on it for a while, rightly divide it with truth!

Already did. I pointed out to you some verses. Please answer them.

I did my one year home work on this so now please do yours.

Have you done one year homework on Moroni 10 yet?

At first I thought the same as you and even said the exact same things untill i did a study and research and after about three month i got the truth and it set me free!

Read this also: Luke 13:1-5

1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galil

[evangelist]

Already did. I pointed out to you some verses. Please answer them.

Have you done one year homework on Moroni 10 yet?

Read this also: Luke 13:1-5

Except ye repent, ye can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Please also read:

Acts 2:38

Matthew 3:2

Revelation 2:5

Acts 3:19

I believe your interpretation is incorrect.

Best Wishes,

TAO

i would love to answer this thread any others , but when I do answer and I am correct or reveal truth I get banned from the thread and can't respond or read the thread any more not even my own threads i started:

That is a lack of love and showing fear of the truth and a very lack of the fruits of the spirit.

It is a bad witness in whole!

Manipulation is wrong!

one love

[TAO]

i would love to answer this thread any others , but when I do answer and I am correct or reveal truth I get banned from the thread and can't respond or read the thread any more not even my own threads i started:

The reason people ban you from threads, evangelist, is because oftentimes you just make plain statements without any support behind them (sorry, that's the hard truth =/). If you explained your Point of View a bit better, and gave reasons as to why we should accept it, I think they would be less hesitant to ban you from the thread.

In any case, you need to also acknowledge the good points other people have as well, or when you disagree with them, have a good reason to disagree with them that you can point out clearly. You cannot expect them to agree with your disagreement, unless you reason with them as to why you disagree. And sometimes, they will come back and say I agree with you my point was bad. But other times, they will not.

So just provide a little more support to your points, and I think you will find people a bit more willing to respond to you. No hard feelings =).

That is a lack of love and showing fear of the truth and a very lack of the fruits of the spirit.

Nah, what it means is that they are not understanding you very well. If you more clearly express what you mean, I think you will find that they will respond much better.

It is a bad witness in whole!

Manipulation is wrong!

one love

Manipulation is wrong XD. But I don't think it's quite manipulation here... it's a lack of understanding by both parties =). Once we fix that, I think there will be a lot less problems.

Best Wishes,

TAO

[evangelist]

The reason people ban you from threads, evangelist, is because oftentimes you just make plain statements without any support behind them (sorry, that's the hard truth =/). If you explained your Point of View a bit better, and gave reasons as to why we should accept it, I think they would be less hesitant to ban you from the thread.

In any case, you need to also acknowledge the good points other people have as well, or when you disagree with them, have a good reason to disagree with them that you can point out clearly. You cannot expect them to agree with your disagreement, unless you reason with them as to why you disagree. And sometimes, they will come back and say I agree with you my point was bad. But other times, they will not.

So just provide a little more support to your points, and I think you will find people a bit more willing to respond to you. No hard feelings =).

Nah, what it means is that they are not understanding you very well. If you more clearly express what you mean, I think you will find that they will respond much better.

Manipulation is wrong XD. But I don't think it's quite manipulation here... it's a lack of understanding by both parties =). Once we fix that, I think there will be a lot less problems.

Best Wishes,

TAO

Hello TAO

Thank you so much for your loving responce!

This is why i like to rather send youtube video's or copy and paste links which agrees and teavches the exact same things as i teach , preach and have learned and research as the truth and the facts!

But people latter say it is not my own work so they void it still even when shown from both side where the confussion is or not!

i like to copy and paste links and web site where there is more biblical proofs than man reasonings and theology and men philosophy!

As an ex -drug addict and ex. DJ, gang members , ex racist as a black panther, and ex prono start and much more, I had to know what sins does, did and how to be free from all these sinful things!

My life witness and experience in my 56 years is anough knowledge to know better.

i went through almost all religion at large and know the truth from the false and decieved.

I most say in all my religions I experience Mormons does has the best morals.

one love

[TAO]

Hello TAO

Thank you so much for your loving responce!

No problem =).

This is why i like to rather send youtube video's or copy and paste links which agrees and teavches the exact same things as i teach , preach and have learned and research as the truth and the facts!

Part of the problem is that many of us here don't like learning from videos. You can't respond to a video if you disagree. You can respond to a user you disagree with. That's why we ask you to defend your own points rather than post a video.

But people latter say it is not my own work so they void it still even when shown from both side where the confussion is or not!

Well try stating the points in the video, rather than show them it... I think it will be less problematic for you. You will still have people saying it is not your own work, but to an extent, nothing in human invention is completely someone's own work.

So explain the points yourself, and I think people will be more willing to listen, that I do. As long as you have an aura of calmness around you.

i like to copy and paste links and web site where there is more biblical proofs than man reasonings and theology and men philosophy!

Again, the reason we don't like websites is that websites don't listen to our responses, which is why people respond so much better to actual users.

So I know it may sound weird to do, but instead, just take the points from the website and use them. Don't make a list though, because then people think you are not being serious. Discuss each point one on one with other users, and people will have more respect for you, that they will.

As an ex -drug addict and ex. DJ, gang members , ex racist as a black panther, and ex prono start and much more, I had to know what sins does, did and how to be free from all these sinful things!

Of course you did. But so we know also, in a different manner. Escaping sin is also something LDS members often go through.

My life witness and experience in my 56 years is anough knowledge to know better.

Let me tell you, someone may live their life to be 103, but they are not experienced if they use their experience to dominate others. Explain your experiences to help people, but do not assume that other people's experience were less than yours, for one day, there will come a person whose experiences blow yours away. Indeed, the amount of experience is not important, as much as personal experience is.

i went through almost all religion at large and know the truth from the false and decieved.

Perhaps you do. Perhaps you don't. I do know though, that I have my own truths that don't apply to other people. Be wary of forcing your opinions on others, though, for if you call people deceived, they will not listen. Indeed, I think there are very few confused people in the world, more often than not, what we see are confused people.

I most say in all my religions I experience Mormons does has the best morals.

Thanks. =)

Best Wishes,

TAO

[Hughes]

Thus why it is important for us to try to repent of all we can remember, and to do all we can do... then the Lord will do the rest.

All men die in some sins, but so is the next world a place for repenting of those sins which would be just to repent of.

No one "in Christ" dies in their sins. Our purity doesn't rely on our ability to recall and repent from each and every sin.

Our righteousness before the lord is based solely on Christ. All was paid, it is finished. Done. Praise him!

1 John5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

[TAO]

No one "in Christ" dies in their sins.

But those who fall for him do. It is possible to fall from being 'in Christ'. Sinning willfully is falling from Christ. Until we cease sinning willfully, we will always have to repent before we can be in him again. That is what I meant.

Our purity doesn't rely on our ability to recall and repent from each and every sin.

Our purity relies on having the desire to repent from every sin. As I said, in the next life, we will have opportunities for those we do not remember now.

Our righteousness before the lord is based solely on Christ.

It is?

1 John 2:4

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his ^acommandments, is a ^bliar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 14:15

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Romans 7:9

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

1 John 3:24

And he that keepeth his commandments ^adwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he ^babideth in us, by the ^cSpirit which he hath given us.

Also see 1 John 3:22, 1 John 5:2, Revelations 22:14, etc.

No, the keeping of commandments is also a base of our righteousness. It isn't simply believing in the Savior that will save you - it is following him, and acting as he expects that will save you also.

Christ can in no way save the willful sinner, he may only save those who will follow him. (See 1 Peter 4:19, Luke 5:32, James 4:8, Luke 15:10, etc).

All was paid, it is finished. Done. Praise him!

All was paid, but only what we repent for will be counted for us.

1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Read the verses that follow it also:

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his ^awill, he ^bheareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ^aask, we know that we have the petitions that we ^bdesired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is ^asin: and there is a ^bsin not unto death.

18 We know that whosoever is ^aborn of God ^bsinneth not; but he that is begotten of God ^ckeepeth himself, and that ^dwicked one toucheth him not.

19 And we know that we are of ^aGod, and the whole ^bworld lieth in ^cwickedness.

Until we sin not, we have not been born of God. We must repent for that which we have sinned, so we can move on to follow God's will.

[Hughes]

But those who fall for him do. It is possible to fall from being 'in Christ'. Sinning willfully is falling from Christ. Until we cease sinning willfully, we will always have to repent before we can be in him again. That is what I meant.

Our purity relies on having the desire to repent from every sin. As I said, in the next life, we will have opportunities for those we do not remember now.

It is?

No, the keeping of commandments is also a base of our righteousness. It isn't simply believing in the Savior that will save you - it is following him, and acting as he expects that will save you also.

Christ can in no way save the willful sinner, he may only save those who will follow him. (See 1 Peter 4:19, Luke 5:32, James 4:8, Luke 15:10, etc).

All was paid, but only what we repent for will be counted for us.

Read the verses that follow it also:

Until we sin not, we have not been born of God. We must repent for that which we have sinned, so we can move on to follow God's will.

One. There are no opportunities to repent in the next life. Sorry no evidence of that from Christ.

Second. If I pray and ask God to forgive me of all my sin. The passage in 1 Jn. tells me that I have eternal life, now. Period. It doesn't say, only after you stop sinning will you be saved, it says, "you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life"

Third. If you actually believe that your salvation rests partly on your ability to not sin, or to recall all your sins to repent of them, then you're not trusting Christ for all of your salvation.

Fourth. The verses you seem to like to point to that talks about our living without sin, have to do not with our salvation, but our sanctification process. That process that the Holy Spirit works in us from the time we believe.

As Philippians 2:13 says, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

It's God who does the work in us. It's not something we have to force ourselves to do. Thanks be to God!

[TAO]

One. There are no opportunities to repent in the next life. Sorry no evidence of that from Christ.

Actually, I believe there is. They are:

1 Peter 3:19, Revelations 20:13, Zechariah 9:11, John 5:25, Romans 14:9, Hebrews 11:40, and...

1 Peter 4:6

^aFor for this cause was the ^bgospel ^cpreached also to them that are ^ddead, that they might be ^ejudged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Second. If I pray and ask God to forgive me of all my sin. The passage in 1 Jn. tells me that I have eternal life, now. Period. It doesn't say, only after you stop sinning will you be saved, it says, "you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life"

And if you read onwards, a few verses down, it says that "We know that whosoever is ^aborn of God ^bsinneth not; but he that is begotten of God ^ckeepeth himself, and that ^dwicked one toucheth him not". You are not considered born of God if you sin.

Third. If you actually believe that your salvation rests partly on your ability to not sin, or to recall all your sins to repent of them, then you're not trusting Christ for all of your salvation.

Call for Proof, please.

Fourth. The verses you seem to like to point to that talks about our living without sin, have to do not with our salvation, but our sanctification process. That process that the Holy Spirit works in us from the time we believe.

I am going to Call for Proof that it does not have to do with our salvation. Proverbs 28:18 - "Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved: but he that is perverse in his ways shall fall at once."

As Philippians 2:13 says, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." It's God who does the work in us. It's not something we have to force ourselves to do. Thanks be to God!

I disagree... look at this verse in Joshua:

Joshua 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

and this verse before the one you cite:

Phillipians 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, ^awork out your own ^bsalvation with fear and trembling.

and this verse in James:

James 1:20

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Our choice is very much an important part of salvation, just as grace is. As said by Titus (chapter 2):

11For the ^agrace of God ^bthat bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ^aungodliness and ^bworldly ^clusts, we should live ^dsoberly, ^erighteously, and godly, in this present world;

13Looking for that blessed hope, and the ^aglorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14Who gave ^ahimself for us, that he might ^bredeem us from all iniquity, and ^cpurify unto himself a ^dpeculiar people, ^ezealous of good works.

15These things speak, and exhort, and ^arebuke with all ^bauthority. Let no man ^cdespise thee.

Therefore, trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, follow him, and he will direct your path.

It is important to follow though, as direction is tough to come by, that it is.

[Hughes]

Actually, I believe there is. They are:

1 Peter 3:19, Revelations 20:13, Zechariah 9:11, John 5:25, Romans 14:9, Hebrews 11:40, and...

Opportunities to repent in the next life?

1 Peter 3:19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits

[TAO]

Opportunities to repent in the next life?

1 Peter 3:19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits

[Hughes]

You missed 1 Peter 4:6. I directly quoted it, which is why it did not show up in the list. But it says it very clearly.

-1 Peter 3:19 - Your Bible translation is in err, the words 'And being made alive' are not included in the text.

-Revelations 20:13 - In the Bible, it uses the words death and hell. Your version again eliminates this.

-Zechariah 9:11 - What is the waterless pit, I ask? Hell, right?

-John 5:25 - your version again skips out on a few words - it says that 'they that hear shall live'. Being in the future tense. Meaning that the dead have to do something, that is, make a choice.

-Romans 14:9 - He is the Lord of both living and dead, right? What are people who have sinned called? Spiritually dead.

-Hebrews 11:40 - again, your bible version eliminates possible meanings. KJV uses 39-40:"And these all, having obtained a ^agood ^breport through faith, received not the promise: ^aGod having ^bprovided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made ^cperfect."

How am I against Hebrews 9:27 - it says not how soon the judgement is to be. Also, if you look at verse 28: "So Christ was once ^aoffered to ^bbear the ^csins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he ^dappear the second time without sin unto salvation.", it tends to clear up that there will be a second chance so justice can be fufilled, does it not?

I disagree. As I pointed out, by Proverbs 28:18, it is possible for a man born spiritually to fall. Believers can sin, and do sin - just because they believe does not save them from sin. "For as the body without the ^aspirit is ^bdead, so faith without ^cworks is dead also." (James 2:26)

When you use a different Bible version, as I told you, interpretations get eliminated. Read verse 7 though, and then read also the story of Jesus and the Jews calling themsleves 'children of Abraham'. Did that save them? No.

Also note verse 27: "For as many of you as have been ^abaptized into Christ have put on Christ." As showed there, Belief alone will not save you. And in James 2:14... "^aWhat doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath ^bfaith, and have not works? can faith save him?".

Please read James Chapter 2 - it says very directly, that faith is not enough to save you. To be saved takes much more than faith, that it does.

Because the word 'work' is used. If it was simply faith, it would be 'choose'.

I was trying to say that without trusting in the Lord (a work), it would be more difficult to receive revelation from God.

If you honestly think that trusting in the Lord is "a work", then we'll have to agree to disagree, because I don't have time.

I will only mention that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19

"19

[TAO]

If you honestly think that trusting in the Lord is "a work", then we'll have to agree to disagree, because I don't have time.

I will only mention that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19

"19

[Hughes]

In LDS theology... that isn't the judgment. That's spiritual prison... before the judgment. The place where people who have not gotten the chance to learn, will be taught.

It's the place I was talking of earlier... the place of opportunity for people to repent, if it is just to do so. For those who it is not just to do so, they must suffer the torment of their own hearts, that they must.

Interesting. He was pleading to leave, repentant you might say. And there was no indication what so ever that he was going to leave, ever.

Something doesn't sound right to me. You say this is a "prison" yet, people in prison are judged already, right?

One misunderstanding is that both places are called, "sheol" or Hell or Hades by the Jewish teachers of that time.

[evangelist]

One. There are no opportunities to repent in the next life. Sorry no evidence of that from Christ.

Second. If I pray and ask God to forgive me of all my sin. The passage in 1 Jn. tells me that I have eternal life, now. Period. It doesn't say, only after you stop sinning will you be saved, it says, "you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life"

Third. If you actually believe that your salvation rests partly on your ability to not sin, or to recall all your sins to repent of them, then you're not trusting Christ for all of your salvation.

Fourth. The verses you seem to like to point to that talks about our living without sin, have to do not with our salvation, but our sanctification process. That process that the Holy Spirit works in us from the time we believe.

As Philippians 2:13 says, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

It's God who does the work in us. It's not something we have to force ourselves to do. Thanks be to God!

Amen!

I second this!

WWWOOO)OWW!

[evangelist]

Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How does Mormons deal with this?

one love

[LeSellers]

Notice that after they both died, they both immediately went to their eternal resting places. One was Hell and one was Heaven, Abraham's side.

Please demonstrate that they "immediately went to their eternal resting places". The parable (which is not necessarily a completely accurate story, but a teaching tool) does not say they were in their "eternal resting places".

We see in other scripture that the immediate place we go is not our "eternal resting place", but a temporary place. Peter is explicit that those in prison would be given a chance to hear His Gospel and be judged according to men and live according to God. If these (who were disobedient, but not mandatorily unbelievers) could later live according to God, they must have been given the chance to repent, and, as Jesus said elsewhere, be baptized, so they could be saved.

Lehi

[TAO]

Interesting. He was pleading to leave, repentant you might say. And there was no indication what so ever that he was going to leave, ever.

I think this is because it wouldn't be just... the place is only for those whom it would be just to repent for. That's what the preaching in spiritual prison is about... to those who have not had a chance to receive the gospel. I think he had already had his chance... and so he had to get punished instead =/.

Something doesn't sound right to me. You say this is a "prison" yet, people in prison are judged already, right?

One misunderstanding is that both places are called, "sheol" or Hell or Hades by the Jewish teachers of that time.

Here, this will explain it a bit better than I can, I can sometimes not be clear on things: http://lds.org/study...s/hell?lang=eng

This link should also help explain how LDS view it: http://lds.org/scrip...d/hell?lang=eng

(Note: They contain some references from D&C, after all, we LDS believe D&C is scripture)

Sorry... it's just I think my answer would be alot more confusing XD. And it's better to get the whole picture rather than have fragmented bits from me =P.