What if President Boyd K Packer becomes the next President of the Church?

[Jason]

The purported original revelation was relaxed in the first place (remember the phrases "not by commandment or constraint" and "principle with promise"). Its practice became increasingly more restrictive over time.

Which would seem to be evidence that if anything the Church is likely to become more restrictive against homosexual acts. Again, whether there is a biological component or not is immaterial.

[Pahoran]

I would prefer Boyd K Packer to not become president of the church.

In my opinion he does not radiate the same spirit of love, kindness and compassion as other apostles do.

I was on my mission when he gave his famous talk, "The Mediator." I was very impressed by it.

I have since been intrigued by the willingness and the ability of anti-Mormons -- some of whom profess to be members of the Church -- to misconstrue it. And just about anything else he ever said or did.

I am in no hurry for President Monson to depart; but when he does, I would be delighted if President Packer lived to become President of the Church. In my view, he certainaly does radiate the same spirit of love, kindness and compassion as other apostles do; and in generous measure.

Regards,

Pahoran

[dbschroeder]

AS a prophet of God? Ummmmmmmmmm, no!

Ceeboo

King James Bible

And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country

dbs

[Pahoran]

No need to take offense. I didn't mention your family at all. The point was that those with gay or lesbian loved ones often acquire a different opinion regarding nature vs. nurture. If you have listened to KSL radio, you may have heard Doug Wright talk about his uncle's struggles, and how that makes it hard for him to believe orientation is anything other than born.

Yes, being too close to a problem can skew one's perspective.

I had a childhood friend who eventually realized/admitted he was gay after his mission. I always knew, from early childhood, that he was different from the rest of the guys (including his brother). I just didn't know why at the time.

Or maybe he was "different" in some irrelevant way that made him vulnerable to be socialised to believe that he was "gay."

In a conversation with a nonbeliever, it's not really effective to quote scriptures or use examples of characters he considers fictional.

In a conversation with LDS believers on an LDS-themed forum, it's not really effective (or non-arrogant) to demand that those believers shelve their beliefs in order to spare your sensibilities.

Regards,

Pahoran

[SilverKnight]

I was on my mission when he gave his famous talk, "The Mediator." I was very impressed by it.

I have since been intrigued by the willingness and the ability of anti-Mormons -- some of whom profess to be members of the Church -- to misconstrue it. And just about anything else he ever said or did.

I am in no hurry for President Monson to depart; but when he does, I would be delighted if President Packer lived to become President of the Church. In my view, he certainaly does radiate the same spirit of love, kindness and compassion as other apostles do; and in generous measure.

For me it's nothing tangible, nor is it really anything specific he's written or said.

President Packer just does not seem as kind as the others.

It's not just me either. My very-faithful father jokingly refers to him as Darth Packer, and my similarly faithful sisters say they are 'scared' of him.

For whatever reason, President Backer has earned a reputation for being unfriendly.

[krose]

Yes, being too close to a problem can skew one's perspective.

I'm sure that's the case. Certainly our assumptions and guesses about what might have occurred in a stranger's childhood to "turn" him gay are much more valid than the observations of those who were there.

Or maybe he was "different" in some irrelevant way that made him vulnerable to be socialised to believe that he was "gay."

Exactly how much gay-leaning socializing do you imagine was going on in rural Utah in the late 1960s? Wait, maybe it was that Lone Ranger show we hurried home to watch after school. What was that masked man's relationship with Tonto, anyway? Two single men roaming the wild West together... hmmm.

In a conversation with LDS believers on an LDS-themed forum, it's not really effective (or non-arrogant) to demand that those believers shelve their beliefs in order to spare your sensibilities.

While I appreciate your skill in insinuating that I am offended by a religious reference, I assume you know that the comment was actually about coming up with an example that would be taken seriously by a nonbeliever. I can believe whatever I wish myself, but if I try to use Hansel and Gretel to illustrate a claim that greedy children might actually be eaten by a witch, I am likely to be dismissed out of hand. So if I want my argument to be taken seriously, I will have to find an example that we both agree really happened.

[Pahoran]

I'm sure that's the case. Certainly our assumptions and guesses about what might have occurred in a stranger's childhood to "turn" him gay are much more valid than the observations of those who were there.

Straw man: such was not my argument. However, it is a fact that people who are close to a problem, and emotionally involved in it, are not likely to view it dispassionately or analytically.

Exactly how much gay-leaning socializing do you imagine was going on in rural Utah in the late 1960s? Wait, maybe it was that Lone Ranger show we hurried home to watch after school. What was that masked man's relationship with Tonto, anyway? Two single men roaming the wild West together... hmmm.

Har har. I guess if you don't have an argument, ridicule can be effective. Given that the "experts" are forever telling us that the homosexual proportion of the population has, like the poor, always been with us, even in rural Utah in the late 1960's, it seems likely that there would have been at least some homosexual men on the lookout.

While I appreciate your skill in insinuating that I am offended by a religious reference, I assume you know that the comment was actually about coming up with an example that would be taken seriously by a nonbeliever. I can believe whatever I wish myself, but if I try to use Hansel and Gretel to illustrate a claim that greedy children might actually be eaten by a witch, I am likely to be dismissed out of hand. So if I want my argument to be taken seriously, I will have to find an example that we both agree really happened.

If you really can't tell the difference between Hansel and Gretel and the Book of Mormon, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Regards,

Pahoran

[krose]

Har har. I guess if you don't have an argument, ridicule can be effective. Given that the "experts" are forever telling us that the homosexual proportion of the population has, like the poor, always been with us, even in rural Utah in the late 1960's, it seems likely that there would have been at least some homosexual men on the lookout.

Possible, but I'm not so sure about "likely." My friend, himself, said he never encountered any until after we moved away to attend college. And if the accepted constant proportion is 1% - 2% of the population, he would have filled our local quota by himself. What seems likely is that any locals with homosexual leanings would have chosen to settle elsewhere (as he did) rather than in a tiny, conservative Mormon village.

If you really can't tell the difference between Hansel and Gretel and the Book of Mormon, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Gosh, I really wanted your help, too. I think it was obvious, however, that this was merely a random example of people another party would not believe were real, rather than an equivalent. Nice slam, though.

[Vance]

Sometimes talking straight is the kindest, most loving, and most compassionate thing you can do. I would prefer someone who tells it how it is over one who tickles my ears with pretty little poems and stories.