Cherebim and a flaming sword

[etana]

Is it possible that ??? can refer here to a desolate dessicated place, a sun blasted desert or similar? This would have interesting implications for those who might believe that Eden was in Africa or even more literally, that verdant Eden was replaced with desolation.

Thoughts? Etymological refutations?

[Uncle Dale]

Is it possible that ??? can refer here to a desolate dessicated place, a sun blasted desert or similar? This would have interesting implications for those who might believe that Eden was in Africa or even more literally, that verdant Eden was replaced with desolation.

Thoughts? Etymological refutations?

The word might carry a double meaning of thirst, or lack of water.

The pain in the throat which feels like a sharp dagger.

If the story of Adam and Eve is allegorical, then it does not

much matter what a flaming sword might mean -- just like the

sword supposed to proceed out of the mouth of Christ, mounted

upon a great white battle charger.

It may never have been meant literally.

UD

[etana]

The word might carry a double meaning of thirst, or lack of water.

The pain in the throat which feels like a sharp dagger.

If the story of Adam and Eve is allegorical, then it does not

much matter what a flaming sword might mean -- just like the

sword supposed to proceed out of the mouth of Christ, mounted

upon a great white battle charger.

It may never have been meant literally.

UD

I agree that it may be partially allegorical, but i disagree that that makes it unimportant. My feeling is that getting the symbolism correct becomes even more important in this case.

anyway, thanks for your thoughts on this.

[volgadon]

Is it possible that ??? can refer here to a desolate dessicated place, a sun blasted desert or similar? This would have interesting implications for those who might believe that Eden was in Africa or even more literally, that verdant Eden was replaced with desolation.

Thoughts? Etymological refutations?

There is a homonym ??? which does mean dry or desolate, but it is vocalised differently. The context here doesn't really warrant such an interpretation. Cherubim here are guarding a place, why guard it if replaced by desolation?

[volgadon]

If the story of Adam and Eve is allegorical, then it does not

much matter what a flaming sword might mean -- just like the

sword supposed to proceed out of the mouth of Christ, mounted

upon a great white battle charger.

It may never have been meant literally.

Even if, perhaps especially if never meant literally, then the meaning of the image becomes very important.

[kamenraider]

Could the "flaming sword" mean "blaze of destruction"? Like maybe the shekhinah and associated glory?

[Uncle Dale]

Could the "flaming sword" mean "blaze of destruction"? Like maybe the shekhinah and associated glory?

The "glory of God" occludes YHWH from direct human observation,

(and thus preserves man from instant destruction).

A flaming sword would not be the glory itself. Perhaps

something more like reflected glory -- like the illumined

face of Moses, after he approached near the glory.

UD

[Macabus]

I view the sword of the cherubim to be a symbolic representation of covenants. Through making and keeping certain covenants, or passing through the flaming sword, admission can be regained to the tree of life. In a similar vein, the flaming of the sword could include reference to the glory of God as the means whereby the ritual purification necessary to regain admission is obtained. The cherubim are not meant as permanent barriers, but as a means of restricting access to those willing to make and keep the covenants required. I don't see the sword as a means for destruction, but quite the opposite. It is a means of gaining eternal life.

[Maidservant]

Desolation IS a spiritual condition that precedes the "eden" spiritual condition. (think of all the exoduses in spiritual development and in history--not to mention that our birth on this planet is an exodus)

[AngelPalmoni]

Cherubim is an actual angel, however the flaming sword represents the commandments in the gospel the we must follow in order to return to God. The Commandments and our obedience stand between us and our calling and elections (tree of life) hence the Flaming Sword between us and the Tree of Life.

[Benjamin McGuire]

Cherubim is an actual angel, however the flaming sword represents the commandments in the gospel the we must follow in order to return to God. The Commandments and our obedience stand between us and our calling and elections (tree of life) hence the Flaming Sword between us and the Tree of Life.

It isn't a flaming sword. The Hebrew lahat hahereb hammithappeket is more accurately translated as the fire of the whirling sword - two nouns in a construct relationship with an attributive participle. The sword is whirling, but not the flame. mithappeket might be more completely translated by the phrase "turning this way and that"- more explicitly spelled out in the KJV, but, the idea is that the sword is moving as it would in swordplay - it whirls. However, the phrase "the whirling sword" is attributive - it describes the flame. The flame is not used to describe the sword. So, the idea in the text is that the "flame" is the guardian spirit - the flame wields a weapon - the whirling sword, and is thus designated by the sword - so, "the flame of the whirling sword".

In Nephi's interpretation in the Book of Mormon, there is no representation of the commandments in the gospel that we must follow here. Nephi first tells us in 12:18 that:

"And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them; yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God, and the Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the Holy Ghost beareth record, from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and forever."

The word Sword is original to the text (see Skousen), but was modified in the printed text accidentally to "word".

A second reference is in 15:30

"And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end."

Nephi's account then relates the flame with its whirling sword in the Genesis narrative to the "justice of God", which separates the wicked from the righteous.

Ben M.

[Ron Beron]

It isn't a flaming sword. The Hebrew lahat hahereb hammithappeket is more accurately translated as the fire of the whirling sword - two nouns in a construct relationship with an attributive participle. The sword is whirling, but not the flame. mithappeket might be more completely translated by the phrase "turning this way and that"- more explicitly spelled out in the KJV, but, the idea is that the sword is moving as it would in swordplay - it whirls. However, the phrase "the whirling sword" is attributive - it describes the flame. The flame is not used to describe the sword. So, the idea in the text is that the "flame" is the guardian spirit - the flame wields a weapon - the whirling sword, and is thus designated by the sword - so, "the flame of the whirling sword".

In Nephi's interpretation in the Book of Mormon, there is no representation of the commandments in the gospel that we must follow here. Nephi first tells us in 12:18 that:

"And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them; yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God, and the Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the Holy Ghost beareth record, from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and forever."

The word Sword is original to the text (see Skousen), but was modified in the printed text accidentally to "word".

A second reference is in 15:30

"And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end."

Nephi's account then relates the flame with its whirling sword in the Genesis narrative to the "justice of God", which separates the wicked from the righteous.

Ben M.

Great response! Thanks.