I desire mercy, not sacrifice...

[mercyngrace]

Another point:

We need to separate out Doctrine, Principles, and Rules/regulations/guidelines.

Each builds upon the one before it. Doctrines and Principles do not change, but rules can.

The Ten Commandments and the Law of Moses are rules, based upon the principles of obedience and holiness. These are primarily based upon the doctrines of Loving God and neighbor, as Jesus taught. You'll note that the 10 Commandments break into two parts: commandments to follow God, and commandments regarding our relationship with our fellow man. Each of the other Mosaic rules led as a schoolmaster to Christ, or led to the higher law and priesthood built upon doctrines and principles that do not change. Christ could fulfill the Law of Moses, because it was not key principles and doctrines, but rather rules to lead the people to the Law of Christ, which IS based on principles (faith in Christ, repentance, charity, patience, etc), and Doctrines (God lives, Jesus is the Christ, We are children of God).

Paul taught that once we accept Christ we no longer live by the law. Was that a reference only to the laws regarding offering sacrifices?

I think we see the nature of a true change of heart in the account of King Benjamin's people (Mosiah 5). The people cry aloud with one voice "We have no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually".

Sometimes I wonder if people who have truly changed see some of our present rules as ridiculous superfluous but keep them because they do not want to offend or become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

[mercyngrace]

What an utter disappointment!

When I read the thread title and clicked on it (I desire mercy), I thought I was going to read about a board member/secret admirer who had a huge crush on MercyNGrace.

What an enormous let down!

Peace,

Ceeboo

[frankenstein]

Jesus pointed out to his critics that the law has exceptions - an ox in the mire will be pulled out, for instance. Healing on the sabath is apparently another exception.

yes, I believe we are in agreement.

-------------------------------

Ceeboo... too funny!

[LifeOnaPlate]

Another point:

We need to separate out Doctrine, Principles, and Rules/regulations/guidelines.

Each builds upon the one before it. Doctrines and Principles do not change, but rules can.

The Ten Commandments and the Law of Moses are rules, based upon the principles of Love, obedience and holiness. You'll note that the 10 Commandments break into two parts: commandments to follow God, and commandments regarding our relationship with our fellow man. Each of the other Mosaic rules led as a schoolmaster to Christ, or led to the higher law and priesthood built upon doctrines and principles that do not change. Christ could fulfill the Law of Moses, because it was not key principles and doctrines, but rather rules to lead the people to the Law of Christ, which IS based on principles (faith in Christ, repentance, charity, patience, etc), and Doctrines (God lives, Jesus is the Christ, We are children of God).

It bears noting that the covenant people didn't really make such distinctions; that the Law itself was bound up in the ritual/ethical/moral aspects of life, not neatly separated into categories like this, including developments placing the Law into two parts.

[rameumptom]

I agree that the covenant people didn't make distinctions as I did. However, Nephi did, as well as others who were more spiritual. As noted, the converted Nephites no longer had a desire to do evil, but good continually. Nephi taught that they continued to live the Law of Moses, because it pointed them to Christ, even though they sought to live the higher law of Melchizedek and "doctrine of Christ" (2 Nephi 25, 30-33).

The Doctrine of Christ that Nephi taught on had no close equal in the Mosaic Law, because it included Faith, Repentance, Baptism by water and Spirit, enduring to the end. They understood that the Mosaic Law had to be lived until the resurrection of Christ (3 Ne 1), showing us that some Israelites understood enough to make distinction between changeable rules and unchanging doctrines. But then the BoM focuses on doctrine and principles, and not on temporary teachings or rules, which is why so little is discussed regarding the specifics of the Law of Moses.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I agree that the covenant people didn't make distinctions as I did. However, Nephi did, as well as others who were more spiritual. As noted, the converted Nephites no longer had a desire to do evil, but good continually. Nephi taught that they continued to live the Law of Moses, because it pointed them to Christ, even though they sought to live the higher law of Melchizedek and "doctrine of Christ" (2 Nephi 25, 30-33).

The Doctrine of Christ that Nephi taught on had no close equal in the Mosaic Law, because it included Faith, Repentance, Baptism by water and Spirit, enduring to the end. They understood that the Mosaic Law had to be lived until the resurrection of Christ (3 Ne 1), showing us that some Israelites understood enough to make distinction between changeable rules and unchanging doctrines. But then the BoM focuses on doctrine and principles, and not on temporary teachings or rules, which is why so little is discussed regarding the specifics of the Law of Moses.

Nephi, etc. have been redacted through a modern translator, and seem to be a pretty idiosyncratic exception, a chosen people of the chosen people of sorts, so projecting their views so easily onto the OT itself can be problematic IMO.

[Kevin Christensen]

Kevin,

I understood the law to be a type "of his coming" meaning His condescension (Alma 25:15) and the outward performances were foreshadowing the sacrifice that would offer salvation. Is that what you are saying?

MnG

Yes.

[mercyngrace]

Yes.

Thanks for clarifying.

I was thinking more of prohibitions and proscriptions when I used the term "law" so your post got me thinking about how those aspects of the law might foreshadow Christ.

Is there a way in which you could see perfectly navigating the proscriptive aspects of the law as leading men to Christ?

[Kevin Christensen]

Thanks for clarifying.

I was thinking more of prohibitions and proscriptions when I used the term "law" so your post got me thinking about how those aspects of the law might foreshadow Christ.

Is there a way in which you could see perfectly navigating the proscriptive aspects of the law as leading men to Christ?

A holistic view, I think, recognizing that it's all about at-one-ment. Seeing the narratives, and behavioral do's and don'ts and the symbols, rituals, and ordinances as all illuminating one another, not as ends in themselves, not separate, but all interrelated pointers within the larger framework of our own journeys of separation from God, initiation into the world of opposites, our individual falleness, and doing what needs to be done to prepare to return to the presence of God. Accepting at-one-ment.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA