Joseph Smith and 1 Enoch

[MCB]

Predictable. Unable to produce anything but assertions. I remain unconvinced and unimpressed.

Then it is equal. Your assertions don't impress or convince me, either.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Then it is equal. Your assertions don't impress or convince me, either.

I am not the one going to an LDS forum for apologetics and making a wild claim bro. This is not even remotely apples to apples. You made a specific claim you back it up.

And if I were a missionary at your door I would hope you would say the same to me for my claims that the BoM is the word of God.

[MCB]

And if I were a missionary at your door I would hope you would say the same to me for my claims that the BoM is the word of God.

Since it is the book that YOU say is sacred scripture, the burden is on you, and you can't convince me.

And If you were a missionary at my door, I would politely say that I am not interested. I would not hesitate to call the police if you persisted.

You see, I once worked real hard to be indifferent to LDS and their beliefs. Then I discovered that some LDS are prejudiced against me because I was born and raised in Hancock County, Illinois, into a family with deep roots in the area. You don't want to hear what I would say to you if I allowed you to continue.

[USU78]

Since it is the book that YOU say is sacred scripture, the burden is on you, and you can't convince me.

And If you were a missionary at my door, I would politely say that I am not interested. I would not hesitate to call the police if you persisted.

You see, I once worked real hard to be indifferent to LDS and their beliefs. Then I discovered that some LDS are prejudiced against me because I was born and raised in Hancock County, Illinois, into a family with deep roots in the area. You don't want to hear what I would say to you if I allowed you to continue.

So MCB's participation here arises out of his desire to keep evergreen the fallout from a 170 year old dispute?

Nice.

USU "Got bitter?" 78

[Mike Reed]

Agreed. Literarily, there is little in common between the two. But they do share this interesting biblical motif of the celestial ascent, which isn't due to direct influence between the two, but instead to a shared ancient Near Eastern heritage.

Do you rule out indirect influence? Such as Smith getting these motif's from folk magic or freemasonry, both of which had interest in enochian lore?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Since it is the book that YOU say is sacred scripture, the burden is on you, and you can't convince me.

And If you were a missionary at my door, I would politely say that I am not interested. I would not hesitate to call the police if you persisted.

You see, I once worked real hard to be indifferent to LDS and their beliefs. Then I discovered that some LDS are prejudiced against me because I was born and raised in Hancock County, Illinois, into a family with deep roots in the area. You don't want to hear what I would say to you if I allowed you to continue.

Spare me your diatrabe, I am not on your front door and I would not waste my time with some one that claimed to be not interested.

The irony of it all. You come here to this board to debate with us on a topic that you are not interested in. Brilliant.

You also came here claiming something then refused to back it up. This is a discussion board. Kindly remove your self if you are not going to discuss something. And I could care 2 craps less where you were born and what deep roots you have. None of that means jack to me.

For the record I am under no obligation to prove anything to you. I have not made one claim in this thread. Got it? You did, and the burden is on you to shoulder the refernces.

And your mind reading skills are terrible, you have no clue if I would want to hear what you have to say, because quite frankly I have no idea what you have to say.

No put up or shut up. If you fail to produce the reference I will alert the mods. It is per the board rules that you produce your refernces when asked for them. And if you wont, then good riddance to you anyway as you are of no use here.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

So MCB's participation here arises out of his desire to keep evergreen the fallout from a 170 year old dispute?

Nice.

USU "Got bitter?" 78

He is acting like a 3 year old boob.

[Joseph Antley]

Do you rule out indirect influence? Such as Smith getting these motif's from folk magic or freemasonry, both of which had interest in enochian lore?

I think it's extremely unlikely. The main similarity between 1 Enoch and 1 Nephi is the celestial ascent, combined with the vision and interpretation of the tree of life. As far as I know, this doesn't exist in Enochian legend outside of 1 Enoch.

[MCB]

The proof of my assertions is extensive. I have provided some of the raw materials. Several members of this board have access to in excess of 500 pages of a text that I have written. Again, my apologies, but I cannot post 500 pages of a text on this board. Maybe you will someday be open-minded enough to give it a read.

And my reason for entering this board is to prove to myself that I have recovered enough from PTSD to post here without becoming a quivering mass of nerves.

Mormons keep evergreen the fallout from a 170 year old dispute. I thought they had grown up.

My participation here has nothing to do with "Evergreen" Actually, when I first heard of it, I thought it was a pornography website.

I agree with the apologists on the possibilities of a common source for I Enoch and similar passages in the BoM. By itself, it is a weak set of parallels.

Ah yes, Kevin I read your post. Very insightful. I think I have done such, but I will review to make sure that I didn't fall into any of those traps. Sorry I didn't catch it the first time, but those pesky flies were bothering me.

[maklelan]

The proof of my assertions is extensive.

No, there is no proof. You may have evidence, but it's certainly not proof, and as I've shown, you're unwilling to submit your evidence to critical evaluation.

I have provided some of the raw materials.

And when the weakness of that material was pointed out you stopped talking about them and started making up straw men.

Several members of this board have access to in excess of 500 pages of a text that I have written. Again, my apologies, but I cannot post 500 pages of a text on this board. Maybe you will someday be open-minded enough to give it a read.

Email it to me. maklelan@yahoo.com.ar. I will respond to your arguments on this board.

And my reason for entering this board is to prove to myself that I have recovered enough from PTSD to post here without becoming a quivering mass of nerves.

Mormons keep evergreen the fallout from a 170 year old dispute. I thought they had grown up.

What a zinger.

My participation here has nothing to do with "Evergreen" Actually, when I first heard of it, I thought it was a pornography website.

I agree with the apologists on the possibilities of a common source for I Enoch and similar passages in the BoM. By itself, it is a weak set of parallels.

What happened to "distinct probability"? Am I to understand that your "distinct probability" was just a naked assertion based only on what you read on this thread? Certainly it can't be part of your manuscript, since you were so quick to change positions.

Ah yes, Kevin I read your post. Very insightful. I think I have done such, but I will review to make sure that I didn't fall into any of those traps. Sorry I didn't catch it the first time, but those pesky flies were bothering me.

They (we?) seemed to have made you change your mind about that "distinct possibility." That is pesky.

[MCB]

Thank you. I'm outta here.

[maklelan]

Thank you. I'm outta here.

You're not going to send me your text? You're just going to crow about how intellectually intimidating you are and then run like a squirrel?