Facsmile 1 and Masonic 25th Degree

[bjw]

I'm in the middle of the Master Craftsman course right now, which is a course offered in Scottish Rite Masonry so you can get a better handle on the esoteric aspects of the degrees. In the 25th degree, Knight of the Brazen Serpent, in the legenda material that Albert Pike writes on the background of the degree, it lists the gods that the ancient Arabians worshipped. These can be found on page 545 of the Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor.

Anyway, two of the gods listed are "Elkamer" (corresponds to the moon) and "Korasht." (corresponds to Venus) I thought this was interesting, and Korasht seems very close to the name "Korash" in Facsimile 1 of the Book of Abraham. I'm not sure if this info would have been available to Joseph Smith or not.

Could this be a parallel with the names in the Book of Abraham? It might make sense that some gods were worshipped under different names by multiple cultures. Albert Pike believed that these gods were some type of emanation from the true God.

I thought some of you might find this interesting... Any thoughts?

[handys003]

Hmm....could it be....... because....JS was a Mason?

[bjw]

Hmm....could it be....... because....JS was a Mason?

However, would JS have had access to any Scottish Rite material? I was under the impression that only the York Rite was available at the time of the early LDS church, and that the highest any of the early Mormons went in Masonry was the Royal Arch Degree? Anyone know more?

[LeSellers]

Hmm....could it be....... because....JS was a Mason?

Probably not, since his becoming a Mason didn't happen until after he translated the Book of Abraham.

Lehi

[Mike Reed]

Probably not, since his becoming a Mason didn't happen until after he translated the Book of Abraham.

Lehi

Joseph had family members (including his own brother, Hyrum) and close associates who were Masons, long before the Book of Abraham was published.

[bjw]

Joseph had family members (including his own brother, Hyrum) and close associates who were Masons, long before the Book of Abraham was published.

Could any of them have joined the Scottish Rite, I didn't think it was available in the US at this time? I thought all of them were York Rite masons, that went only as high as the Royal Arch.

[Mike Reed]

Could any of them have joined the Scottish Rite, I didn't think it was available in the US at this time? I thought all of them were York Rite masons, that went only as high as the Royal Arch.

Scottish rite was indeed available in the U.S. See Ordo ab Chao: The Original and Complete Rituals, 4th-33rd Degrees of the first Supreme Council, 33rd Degree at Charleston, South Carolina; and Arturo De Hoyos and S. Brent Morris, Committed to the Flames.

[LeSellers]

Joseph had family members (including his own brother, Hyrum) and close associates who were Masons, long before the Book of Abraham was published.

Of course he did. But they would not have broken their oaths and told him of the rituals.

Lehi

[Mike Reed]

Of course he did. But they would not have broken their oaths and told him of the rituals.

Lehi

And you know that for certain, eh?

[LeSellers]

And you know that for certain, eh?

You can't prove a negative.

Since you're the one insinuating they did, then show us your evidence.

Lehi

[Mike Reed]

You can't prove a negative.

Then don't make a negative assertion.

Since you're the one insinuating they did, then show us your evidence.

Lehi

I will present plenty of evidence. But not here. I'll save it for publication.

[LeSellers]

Then don't make a negative assertion.

You made your false one, I merely rebutted it.

I will present plenty of evidence. But not here. I'll save it for publication.

Yeah, right.

Does it all rely on your inability to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet?

Lehi

[bjw]

Scottish rite was indeed available in the U.S. See Ordo ab Chao: The Original and Complete Rituals, 4th-33rd Degrees of the first Supreme Council, 33rd Degree at Charleston, South Carolina; and Arturo De Hoyos and S. Brent Morris, Committed to the Flames.

It still makes you wonder what the early Mormons actually had access to. Albert Pike did not write the Legenda material that I mentioned in the OP until the 1870s. Also, it seems like I remember Greg Kearney saying that AASR was not available in Illinois during the Nauvoo period when most of the Masonic aspects were added to Mormonism. It says in the monitor that the reorganization of the Northern jurisdiction was in 1867. While it seems to have been available, it does not seem to have been as widespread as the York Rite during this period.

What I mentioned in the OP was not in the 25th degree itself, but was only in the Legenda of the degree written by Albert Pike in the 1870s. Prior to this period, was there a way JS could have found out about these god names?

[Mike Reed]

You made your false one

No I didn't. I said, "Joseph had family members (including his own brother, Hyrum) and close associates who were Masons, long before the Book of Abraham was published."

And you agreed, saying "Of course he did."

I merely rebutted it.

You rebutted it with an unsupported natagive assertion?

Yeah, right.

Does it all rely on your inability to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet?

Nope. I will weigh the evidence after much research, and form my conclusions accordingly.

[Maidservant]

Does Albert Pike say where he knew these names from, to be able to write about them himself?

[Mike Reed]

Prior to this period, was there a way JS could have found out about these god names?

I don't know. A great deal of research would need to be done before any conclusions of confidence can be made to rule the possibility out.

Interesting observation, though. Thanks for sharing.

[bjw]

Does Albert Pike say where he knew these names from, to be able to write about them himself?

I'm really not sure about this, maybe someone who knows more about Pike can answer that question. What I know about him was that he was highly educated in law, history, religion, theology, the occult, etc. Basically, he was to masonry what Hugh Nibley was to Mormonism. So, I'm not sure what kind of research he might have done to write the Legenda material for the degrees. The AASR commissioned him to comepletely rework the degrees because of his extensive background.

Mike Reed, thanks for the compliment. This is something I'll have to look into.

[Mike Reed]

Mike Reed, thanks for the compliment. This is something I'll have to look into.

Absolutely.

I'll try to keep my eyes open for you as I research other topics related to Mormonism and Freemasonry.

Good luck!