Examples of Textual Variants

[cksalmon]

Its a known fact that the church was fighting against "Antinomianism", thats were "Faith Alone" doctrine leads.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Antinomianism

Leaving aside the grammatical difficulties, I'm sure you believe that, Zak. Truthfully, however, I don't think you have much of a grasp on any portion of church history. But, let's get back to the point. You haven't demonstrated at all how the shorter reading militates toward conclusion you've foisted upon it. Can you demonstrate what you've claimed in that regard?

cks

[Zakuska]

Leaving aside the grammatical difficulties, I'm sure you believe that, Zak. Truthfully, however, I don't think you have much of a grasp on any portion of church history. But, let's get back to the point. You haven't demonstrated at all how the shorter reading militates toward conclusion you've foisted upon it. Can you demonstrate what you've claimed in that regard?

cks

Not at the moment... but like Russ over on CARM I am taking donations.

http://www.logos.com/products/details/1903

When should I expect your check?

[Zakuska]

In the interm... Heb 2:8 yet another textual variant that Metzger and staff are at a defcon level 4 on the uncertianty scale of what it really said. This effects the core doctrine of the ressurection.

http://www.logos.com...ts/details/1903

[John T]

Not at the moment... but like Russ over on CARM I am taking donations.

http://www.logos.com...ts/details/1903

When should I expect your check?

Thanks for that link!

Logos is a GREAT tool to have, and I spent some time scanning and editing the scanned document.

I will tell Santa that I want to add that to my collection. (2 gigs of resources, about 325 electronic books (and counting).

Copy sent to my wife

[William the Conqueror]

The way the shorter verse reads now it forces the doctrine of Grace. In the Longer version Grace and Works are compared as polar opposites diabolicaly opposed to each other. Yet Paul spends the next 6 chapters showing how it all works together. eg. How works of the law play into Love and are fullfilled in the New Covenant.

The Grace vs. Works debate goes clear back too 400AD in which a group of "Christians" were teaching "Grace Alone". From what I read this group was declared Anathema by the Church fathers. Intrestingly this is just about the time the Bible was being compiled so it is absolutely imparative we know which reading is original to the text, especially since the group who was teaching grace alone would have found the shorter reading a god send.

especially since the group who was teaching grace alone would have found the shorter reading a god send.

Well Zak, I suppose you consider yourself superior to Bruce Metzger. The most accurate is: 1.The shortest, 2.the oldest, and 3.the most difficult.

[cksalmon]

In the interm... Heb 2:8 yet another textual variant that Metzger and staff are at a defcon level 4 on the uncertianty scale of what it really said. This effects the core doctrine of the ressurection.

http://www.logos.com...ts/details/1903

Really, Zak? Hebrews 2:8 has nothing to do with Christ's resurrection. The variant (and, yes, I actually own and am now referring to Metzger's Textual Commentary) has nothing to do with Christ's resurrection. Metzger's commentary on 2:8 has nothing to do with Christ's resurrection.

Also, Metzger passed away in 2007. I seriously doubt that either he or his "staff" are at "defcon level 4" over ???? at 2:8. Comfort passes without comment.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Please quote Metzger and explain to me how you you reached your conclusion.

cks

[Vance]

I see now why the red flag on my BS meter went up when you said 99.99. To get such a high calculated probability indicates to me that the data were manipulated. And lo and behold we have this.

The Committee carried out, its wart: in four principal stages: (₁)on the basis of^, Wescott and Hort's edition of the Greek New Testament a comparison was made of the text, and apparatus of several other editions, including those of Nestle. Borer, Mark, and Vogels and to some extent those of Tischendorfdorf and von Soden,

(1) order to determine which of tire variant readings warranted further study;

(2) data on several thousand sets of variants were gathered not only from printed editions, commentaries and technical studies, but also from hitherto unused papyri, uncials, minuscules and lectionaries

(3) about 600 variations in punctuation, which appeared to merit consideration were selected and compared to the editions of the Greek test, and in the principal English, German, French translations; and finally,

(4) the Greek text was estab

[cksalmon]

I see now why the red flag on my BS meter went up when you said 99.99. To get such a high calculated probability indicates to me that the data were manipulated. And lo and behold we have this.

Here is an explicit admission that the data were very much filtered. The authors openly admit that they used their own prejudices to filter the data. To me this explains the 99.99.

An other clear admission that a lot of subjectivity was used. Data filtering, subjective selection and calculation methods resulted in the 99.99.

This reminds me, in a way, of the latest global warming fiasco. At least these guys were honest enough to openly admitted that they were manipulating the data and fudging the calculations. But unfortunately for you, it means that the 99.99 number is worthless.

No, it really doesn't, Vance.

If you're interested in the topic, I'd suggest the following as a good introduction to the issues: the 2008 Greer-Heard Dialogue between Daniel Wallace and Bart Ehrman. Their entire Friday night exchange will set you back a mere $10 and would provide some context against which to evaluate your own skepticism.

cks