Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Q. Whose feeling are you to accept as true when individual feelings contradict?DLCQ. Whose interpretation of the bible are you to accept as true when individual interpretation contradict?MRSR
DLClark Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed. The faith (deposite of truth) that was once delivered to us by Christ 2000 years ago is a once delivered faith. Faith (the deposit of truth) is static. that faith is found in the Bible. Jude 3. DLC
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed. The faith (deposite of truth) that was once delivered to us by Christ 2000 years ago is a once delivered faith. Faith (the deposit of truth) is static. that faith is found in the Bible. Jude 3. DLCRevelation from God is closed? So what revelation did you recieve that that is the case? You realise it takes revelation to make known that that is the case. I cannot find one verse of scripture that tells us that revelation from God is closed. You have an unbiblical position.What is the testimony of Jesus Christ?
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed. The faith (deposite of truth) that was once delivered to us by Christ 2000 years ago is a once delivered faith. Faith (the deposit of truth) is static. that faith is found in the Bible. Jude 3. DLCInteresting notion.When, then, was the last time God answered a prayer, of a supplicant asking for wisdom? Did such Divine interaction end with the death of the last of Jesus' Apostles?Uncle Dale
DLClark Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed? So what revelation did you recieve that that is the case? You realise it takes revelation to make known that that is the case. I cannot find one verse of scripture that tells us that revelation from God is closed. You have an unbiblical position.What is the testimony of Jesus Christ?Read Jude 3 before you come back to me again.
DLClark Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Eph 1:33 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:KJVCol 2:8-108 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:KJVWe are blessed with everything that heaven can give. We are complete in Christ not needing anything added to us, like new revelation, to help us. We are complete in Christ. No new revaltion is being given. The Bible is a closed book, Jude 3.DLC
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Read Jude 3 before you come back to me again.Sorry but I cannot find a single refernce that revelation has stopped. I can't even see how it can be inffered by the text. Want to try again?
DLClark Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Sorry but I cannot find a single refernce that revelation has stopped. I can't even see how it can be inffered by the text. Want to try again?Jude 3 tell me what is says please.DLC
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 We are blessed with everything that heaven can give. We are complete in Christ not needing anything added to us, like new revelation, to help us. We are complete in Christ. No new revaltion is being given. The Bible is a closed book, Jude 3.DLCWhat a load of crap. I reject your interprations solely because it is not supported by the text of the bible. John tells us that the testimony of Jesus CHrist is the spirit of prophecy. I guess John didn't get the memo.How does one know that Jesus is the Christ? Oh wait we don't even need to know that because now all are saved as we are all complete in Jesus. You know you are teaching false doctrine DLClark.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Jude 3 tell me what is says please.DLCYou quote it. I am not your lap dog. If you think it has some relevant point why do you highlight it. I couldn't find any reference to revelation not being needed.
DLClark Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 What a load of crap. I reject your interprations solely because it is not supported by the text of the bible. John tells us that the testimony of Jesus CHrist is the spirit of prophecy. I guess John didn't get the memo.How does one know that Jesus is the Christ? Oh wait we don't even need to know that because now all are saved as we are all complete in Jesus. You know you are teaching false doctrine DLClark.What does it mean to be complete in Christ then? What does it mean that God has blessed us with ever spiritual blessing in the heavenly place in Christ? By the way your attitude and speech needs to be checked. You have just disqualified yourself from meriting heaven by not have you speech and attitude in check. Col 4:66 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.KJVEph 4:299 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.KJVI have never once dengrated you like you just did to me and you think Mormonism is the best religion. Your attitude says different if Mormons have your kindness. I have never used the word "cra..." but you seem not to mind foul speech.DLC
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Jude 3....The text is written in the form of a communication from an apostolic pastor to his congregation(s). He speaks as though he had previously given pastoral instruction/advice to his parishioners -- now he reminds them of their faith, which has come from God, unto Jude's auditors and their fellow Saints.The writer exhorts his parishioners to stay with their original faith in the Gospel and not to give heed to false preachers, etc.The apostolic epistle says nothing about God closing off future interaction with the Saints. He says nothing about a withdrawal of the Holy Ghost, nothing about an end to answered prayers. He says nothing about what the canon of scripture might be -- although in verse 9 he alludes to an account of Moses not included in our modern Bibles; and in verse 14 he alludes to an account of Enoch not included in our modern Bibles.It is really your contention that there has been no interaction between God and humankind since the death of "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James?"UD
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed....An account from my own experience, while in theological seminary.The pastor of a pentecostal congregation announces during Sunday services that a sizable cash donation has been received -- enough money to build a new chapel. But one of the deacons reminds the congregation that they have a standing commitment to provide resources to the community Food Bank.The pastor and congregation agree upon a week of prayer and fasting, during which time they will put this question before The Lord, for His decision.The following Sunday the congregation meets and the pastor announces that it has been made known unto him that The Lord wills that the donation be used for the feeding of the poor. Several other members of the congregation stand and bear testimony that they also have a spiritual witness that this decision to give the money to the Food bank is in accord with the will of God.Should we dismiss such an occurrence as nothing but lies, delusion and the bearing of false witness -- because "revelation from God is closed."???UD
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 What does it mean to be complete in Christ then? What does it mean that God has blessed us with ever spiritual blessing in the heavenly place in Christ? By the way your attitude and speech needs to be checked. You have just disqualified yourself from meriting heaven by not have you speech and attitude in check. Col 4:66 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.KJVEph 4:299 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.KJVI have never once dengrated you like you just did to me and you think Mormonism is the best religion. Your attitude says different if Mormons have your kindness. I have never used the word "cra..." but you seem not to mind foul speech.DLClet him who is with out sin cast the first stone.I call it as I see it DL. You need not get personal with your judgment of me. Last I check you are not Christ and I don't answer to you. I find it quite telling that you wish to condem me. Spare me your self rightousness. Crap is not a bad word. Now if I said the other word you might have a point. I find it interesting that you have offered up a private interpretation of scripture which was condemed by Peter. BTW I haven't dis qualified my self for heaven as I am not required to be perfect. Opps, I guess you didn't know that either. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that I some how sinned, you are claiming that I can't seek forgivness. Shame on you.I found that you post is limiting what the bible acutally teaches. It is not supported by the text. To be complete in Christ means to have faith that he is who he said he is and to follow Christ by living his commandments. It has no refernce for revelation not being needed. The way to know that you are forgivin of your sins and to know that Jesus is the Christ is through revelation. If you wish to beleive that revelation is not given, so be it, just know that it runs contrary to what the bible teaches.If I offened you then I am sorry it was not my intent, if you think that word is offensive I won't use it.
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed....Another example --A young Christian composes the words and music to a beautiful inspirational hymn -- the quality of the work is recognized and the hymnist is complemented.He answers: "Don't praise me -- praise God, who inspired the words and music."Are we to dismiss the hymn-writer's reply as nothing but lies and delusion, because all "Revelation from God is closed."???UD
Lightbearer Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed. The faith (deposite of truth) that was once delivered to us by Christ 2000 years ago is a once delivered faith. Faith (the deposit of truth) is static. that faith is found in the Bible. Jude 3. DLCOkay, you can trash Mola, but please explain to me how the following verse (I am assuming you mean verse since their is only one chapter in Jude in my Bible) says that revelation from God is closed:(Jude 1:3) "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."Does that mean that what Jude is now writing is not revelation from God? In fact it seems this passage disproves your argument, or else why is it part of the Bible? As Mola tried to explain until you started pulling motes out of his eye:(Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."If this is true then prophecy should never cease unless the testimony of Jesus ceases also. But it does not cease and the word of God does not cease. You may not believe it is the word of God, but you cannot stay the hand of God or say what He cannot reveal any more than the Jews at the time of Christ could say that John the Baptist was not a prophet or that Jesus was not the Christ. We believe in the religion of the people in the Bible, not that the Bible itself is religion! It testifies of people who had the authority and truth of God and that the Lord can make these things known unto all.Oh and to be "complete in Christ" means to accept the authority of His servants and to have faith in Christ unto salvation by obeying His voice and living by every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God.
DLClark Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 What a load of crap. I reject your interprations solely because it is not supported by the text of the bible. John tells us that the testimony of Jesus CHrist is the spirit of prophecy. I guess John didn't get the memo.How does one know that Jesus is the Christ? Oh wait we don't even need to know that because now all are saved as we are all complete in Jesus. You know you are teaching false doctrine DLClark.the Gosple of John was written to show us that Jesus is the christ and that believing you will be saved. John 20:30-31. Again the Bible gives us all of the answers to life's questions that we must know. We are complete in christ. What the word "complete" mean? How do you know that you have done enough to merit God letting you into heaven to be with Him?DLC
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Faith (the deposit of truth) is static...If that is all "faith" is -- a "deposit" -- then perhaps some ignorant people could argue that their faith is indeed "static" and cannot grow.I'd like to meet one of these people whose faith is perfect and complete.For the rest of us, our trust and reliance in God can indeed grow. Our faith can expand, from the size of a mustard seed to infinite vastness.Our optimism, our hope for things unseen, our assurance that God is at work in our lives can expand endlessly.Pity those whose faith can no longer grow ---Uncle Dale
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 ...the Bible gives us all of the answers to life's questions that we must know....Is that what they said when they burned the great library at Alexandria?Hypatia of AlexandriaIs that what the Muslims said about their Koran, when they burned other books?I was in China, when Mao's "Little Red Book" was still venerated as "all we ever need to know." They seriously believed they could build their entire lives and society, technology, industry and education, on one book.UD
Luigi Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 As is evident, scriptures can be pieced together to make them say anything we want...how can we trust this method any more than our feelings?It can't be trusted but neither can our feelings. Generally a spiritual experience is dependent on one's background and/or where one experiences a sense of unity and oneness within a social group. That is why groups that isolate themselves from others and demand strict conformity often produce these emotions so intensely. I remember hearing a speaker at a BYU once explain how to follow the Spirit correctly and said he had visited a polygamous compound that was trying to recruit him and felt such an overwhelming sense of peace and joy that he only got out of the experience by repeating to himself 'these people are apostates' or something like that. The point is that spiritual emotions are an evolved instinct, binding us with others in social groups and not surprisingly these emotions tend for most people to be most strongly manifest in the religion in which they were raised and/or where there is strong evidence of group unity and mutual support. I am confident, for example, that Hoops22 experiences his most intense spiritual experiences among fellow Evangelicals and would not feel the same intense emotions reading the Book of Mormon or sitting in a Mormon congregation whereas a person raised Mormon would have the opposite experience of feeling relatively little spiritual emotions in a Evangelical meeting while feeling much more intense spritual emotions reading the Book of Mormon or attending Mormon services. However an individual can be moved toward experiencing spiritual emotions more intensely within a different social group through experiences which create doubt. While such doubts are attributed to apparent failures of the social group to uphold key principles the attraction to these principles has an evolutionary basis and consequently the doubts are, in essence, doubts about the survivability of the social group. This can lead to an individual experiencing spirituality more intensely in a social group he was not raised in because his instincts are responding to another social group which is percieved as better at adopting those key principles.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 the Gosple of John was written to show us that Jesus is the christ and that believing you will be saved. John 20:30-31. Again the Bible gives us all of the answers to life's questions that we must know. We are complete in christ. What the word "complete" mean? How do you know that you have done enough to merit God letting you into heaven to be with Him?DLCWhy do you keep asking this same question? I answered it 3 times now. I will not do it again.
Uncle Dale Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Revelation from God is closed....For all eternity?Never again will Israel's God communicate with His Saints?The millennial rule of Christ upon the earth, a reign of silence?Celestial Eternity, a "heaven as iron," and The New Jerusalem an "earth as brass."????UD
mercyngrace Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I am confident, for example, that Hoops22 experiences his most intense spiritual experiences among fellow Evangelicals and would not feel the same intense emotions reading the Book of Mormon or sitting in a Mormon congregation whereas a person raised Mormon would have the opposite experience of feeling relatively little spiritual emotions in a Evangelical meeting while feeling much more intense spritual emotions reading the Book of Mormon or attending Mormon services. Hogwash.A person who is in tune with the spirit can feel it anywhere truth or godliness is present. A person without the spirit can stand in the presence of angels and still feel empty.
Luigi Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Hogwash.A person who is in tune with the spirit can feel it anywhere truth or godliness is present. A person without the spirit can stand in the presence of angels and still feel empty.Hogwash.A person who has strong spiritual (or I would call them a form of social) instincts will feel them wherever reminders of his social group's practices and beliefs is present.
mercyngrace Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Hogwash.A person who has strong spiritual (or I would call them a form of social) instincts will feel them wherever reminders of his social group's practices and beliefs is present.Your words:I am confident, for example, that Hoops22 experiences his most intense spiritual experiences among fellow Evangelicals and would not feel the same intense emotions reading the Book of Mormon or sitting in a Mormon congregation whereas a person raised Mormon would have the opposite experience of feeling relatively little spiritual emotions in a Evangelical meeting while feeling much more intense spritual emotions reading the Book of Mormon or attending Mormon services. My experience:I was raised LDS but attended vacation Bible school with Baptist friends, sang in Pentacostal churches routinely throughout my adolescence, and have attended more weddings and funerals at non-LDS churches/synagogues than at LDS churches. I have had compelling spiritual experiences in a variety of these settings as well as completely non-religious settings and find truth in eastern traditions as well as completely secular ones. Moments of revelation and "pure knowledge" come as I encounter truth, regardless of the setting or the social cues. All truth is independent... (D&C 93:30)
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