Do The Lds Teach That God The Father Never Sinned?

[alswell]

From His Father obviously. There was no "first" just as there will be no "last" man or God, that is the definition of Eternity and Infinitiy. Beyond that we cannot comprehend what eternity is all about. As for the means of becoming a God, that is the purpose of the plan of salvation known as the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for responding. Are you saying that the first man became a God because there was already a God in existence?

May God Bless You,

Alswell

[alswell]

Don't we learn in the temple about how Father gained his knowledge? That's pretty official isn't it?

I suppose if you wanted to get technical you could speculate that He went through mortality as a savior of his world and thus lived a sinless life, though.

Some people interpret Joseph Smith's remarks about Jesus doing what he saw that Father do to mean just that.

Some Mormon fundamentalists who believe in Adam-God, though, interpret these remarks of Joseph Smith to mean that Adam is God the Father and that Jesus saw him go through mortality here, lay down his life, and take it up again.

Please forgive me for not understanding. I am a Baptist and have no knowledge of Temple protocol, but I thought the official position of LDS is that the Adam-God teachings were false.

May God Bless You,

Alswell

[kamenraider]

Please forgive me for not understanding. I am a Baptist and have no knowledge of Temple protocol, but I thought the official position of LDS is that the Adam-God teachings were false.

May God Bless You,

Alswell

Yep, that's right. So called Mormon fundamentalists evidently aren't worried about what the LDS Church's official position is though -- a great many of them aren't even members of the LDS Church.

[alswell]

Yep, that's right. So called Mormon fundamentalists evidently aren't worried about what the LDS Church's official position is though -- a great many of them aren't even members of the LDS Church.

Are they of the same variety that got themselves arrested in Texas or do they not associate with polygamist?

May God Bless You,

Alswell

[Bat-Man]

No sense at all unless God decides to abdicate.

I think you missed my point.

Sin is anything contrary to the will of God (our Father in heaven). That is what sin is.

Now, with that understood, I ask you, in what sense does it make any sense that our Father could have done something contrary to His own will ???

Even if He abdicated, which would essentially mean that He would have changed His mind, whatever He did when He changed His mind would still be His own will.

You'll need to think this through, seriously, before you can come up with the intelligent answer.

But when the homo sapiens who become our God was mortal himself, he likely was not a God.

What you have said is what I would expect to hear from someone who believes in evolution, while in reality all of us who are children of God are already God, right now, in essence, by nature, even though we are not as perfect as He is, yet... if we will ever be.

[kamenraider]

Are they of the same variety that got themselves arrested in Texas or do they not associate with polygamist?

May God Bless You,

Alswell

Same or similar variety, speaking generally, of course.

[charity's child]

Are they of the same variety that got themselves arrested in Texas or do they not associate with polygamist?

May God Bless You,

Alswell

Same or similar variety, speaking generally, of course.

or possibly very different, indeed

[charity's child]

I think you missed my point.

Sin is anything contrary to the will of God (our Father in heaven). That is what sin is.

Now, with that understood, I ask you, in what sense does it make any sense that our Father could have done something contrary to His own will ???

But if God lived a life like Christ lived, wherein he was the savior of a world, or even if he lived a life like we live, wherein he existed as a mere ordinary inhabitant of a world, then "God" referred to a different person. And a sin, as defined at that time would have been to go contrary to the will of HIS Father. Ergo, he could have sin.

However, based on what Christ said, God did not sin.

[jkfrost]

But if God lived a life like Christ lived, wherein he was the savior of a world, or even if he lived a life like we live, wherein he existed as a mere ordinary inhabitant of a world, then "God" referred to a different person. And a sin, as defined at that time would have been to go contrary to the will of HIS Father. Ergo, he could have sin.

However, based on what Christ said, God did not sin.

Well said, and here is where I stand, Jesus was sinless and

therefore was able to offer a sinless sacrifice.

If the Father was a Savior like unto ours then He would have to be sinless as a man just as Jesus the Christ was.

Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;

but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,

the just

for the unjust,

that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

KFD:

...the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did;

and I will show it from the Bible.

...As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power -- to do what?

Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious -- in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again.

Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again...

What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence.

My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom,

I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory.

He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.

So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before;

and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. "

[Lightbearer]

Thank you for responding. Are you saying that the first man became a God because there was already a God in existence?

May God Bless You,

Alswell

As hard as that is for us as mortals to comprehend... yes. In other words there was no "beginning" and will be no "ending" as far as God and man (who are of the same species) are concerned. That is why God is from everlasting to everlasting, because all the Gods who have ever been exalted or ever will be exalted have had existence as intelligence for eternity. We are eternal beings (our intelligence, our spirit bodies, and at our resurrection our physical bodies) if these bodies are glorified and exalted then we will reach the status of God. We then become one with Him, not greater but equal in all ways only He will forever be our Father (even if we are not exalted) and so this earth life is a crude representation of things heavenly. If we as sons and daughters reach this high and holy calling then we will reproduce others of our own kind, we will have eternal increase or spirit offspring that will be tried and tested just as we have and they will be exalted if they desire to choose the path we have trodden. There are many aspects of this that is almost beyond comprehension for most to understand unless they are enlightened by the Holy Spirit. I hope this helps.

[jkfrost]

This is the classic Anti-Mormon question, the reason is they believe it is blasphemy for us mere evil men to think we can become as God the Father now is, that is why Jesus was crucified and why all the Saints and Prophets of all ages were and are persecuted. While the KFD does indicate the Father was a "Christ" on another earth it is not conclusive as such. That is probably why President Hinckley said we do not know much about that (God the Father's mortal existence) But ironically the question does raise a concern that is even more troubling. It implies that the atonement of Christ is not infinite and eternal... it implies that all repentant sinners are not somehow totally cleansed and purified by the blood of Christ, nor is He capable of making us worthy and without spot. To me these "so-called christians" are denying the grace and mercy of God by saying that we never could become perfect as He is perfect. It is a doctrine that to me is rather Anti-Christ in nature, the defeatist Satanic accusers voice that no matter what we never can be like God, that Christ's atonement is not powerful enough to wash our sins though they be of scarlet can be as white as the snow. It is the denial of our God given agency that allows us to choose to become as our Father is A GOD or to fall short by our own lack of valiance. Jesus Christ implored us to come and follow Him, why? So we could become like Him through His grace and our use of agency and faith. So in reality it does not matter one wit if God the Father was a "vile sinner" as our enemies like to suppose or if He was sinless because He chose to do His Father's will (which is what I personally believe Joseph was teaching in the KFD) either way He now is "MAN OF HOLINESS" just as He desires of all His sons to become. That is what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is for, so we all can be where they are and do what they are doing. We are a race of Gods in "evolution" (the correct use of that term) we started as spirit children born from uncreated intelligence (another concept we do not fully understand) we were raised in the Mansions of our Eternal Parents, Father and Mother until we had developed to the stage where we could take upon ourselves tabernacles of flesh so that our faith and obedience could be put to the test (the second test) the first test (our spirit existence) one third of our brothers and sisters failed and were cast out for rebellion. Those who remained true and faithful were born into this mortal existence for the purpose of proving worthy and developing our faith and love so that we see if we will follow the Father in all things so that if we pass these tests and trials of life we may have blessings poured upon our heads forever and ever.

I like the way you put things even in your latest post here.

Thanks!

[Bat-Man]

But if God lived a life like Christ lived, wherein he was the savior of a world, or even if he lived a life like we live, wherein he existed as a mere ordinary inhabitant of a world, then "God" referred to a different person. And a sin, as defined at that time would have been to go contrary to the will of HIS Father. Ergo, he could have sinned.

Good conclusion, charity's child... regarding how the Man who became our Father could have sinned, if he ever did, before he became our Father... but you slipped up a little bit (in my perspective) while coming to that conclusion.

None of us are a "mere ordinary inhabitant of a world"... in my perspective.

... regardless of whether or not we were chosen by our Father to be the Savior of that whole world.

However, based on what Christ said, God did not sin.

You seem to be operating on the premise that our Savior was saying He had seen what our Father had done before our Father became our Father, and while that may possibly be true... if our Lord had been given the gift of being able to see that far back in the past to the time before the Man who became our Father became our Father... it is also possible that our Lord was simply talking about doing what He had seen our Father do in our Savior's current relationship with our Father while our Father was our Father... not saying anything about what our Father had done before our Father became our Father.

We all need to be careful about how we interpret the scriptures.

[SeekerB]

My question is how did he get the power to become God in the first place? Jesus had the Father, so by what means did the first man become God?

May God Bless You,

Alswell

If we knew that, then we could do it ourselves. Of course, that could allow evil men to have the same power as God, so it is kept hidden.

[jkfrost]

My question is how did he get the power to become God in the first place? Jesus had the Father, so by what means did the first man become God?May God Bless You,Alswell

I believe Joseph said there never was a time when there was no God.Here is a similar question for you.What did God do in the eons before he created our earth?

jkfrost:Not off the top of my head. But Christ said He did nothing that He did not see His Father do, and that Christ was a sinless man. So logic would dictate that God the Father never sinned either. For the rest of us I apply for repentance often.

That must be the crux

[Olavarria]

This is an aexample of what I call an anti-mormon "thought bomb".

You make a shocking and unsupportable statement and then the defender has to spend a few minutes thoughtfully explaining a complicated and nuanced topic while the ignoarant critic just crosses his arms and shakes his head:

Other examples include:

Where are the nephite exhibits are the Louvre?

Joseph Smith was a pro-slavery pedophile.

"Why doesn't President Hinkley tell these people in Colorado City to stop?! We contacted Church headquarters but President Hinckley was not available for comment"-Im not kidding about this one.

DNA disproved the BoM

John 5: 19

19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things so ever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Hmm What did you do Jesus? Answer: Live a sinless life. The Son cannot be 100% obedient himself, except he seeth the Father be 100% obedient: for what things so ever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

[jkfrost]

This is an aexample of what I call an anti-mormon "thought bomb".

You make a shocking and unsupportable statement and then the defender has to spend a few minutes thoughtfully explaining a complicated and nuanced topic while the ignoarant critic just crosses his arms and shakes his head:

Other examples include:

Where are the nephite exhibits are the Louvre?

Joseph Smith was a pro-slavery pedophile.

"Why doesn't President Hinkley tell these people in Colorado City to stop?! We contacted Church headquarters but President Hinckley was not available for comment"-Im not kidding about this one.

DNA disproved the BoM

John 5: 19

19) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things so ever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Hmm What did you do Jesus? Answer: Live a sinless life. The Son cannot be 100% obedient himself, except he seeth the Father be 100% obedient: for what things so ever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

FYI - I am not anti

Looking for refs besides the KFD on the subject ( that appears to support the idea indeed that the Father was like our Savior and therefore sinless.

BTW - The KFD is it related to the KFC sermon?

[Notquitewetyet]

There is a website that says we believe that God the Father sinned.

I hope it doesn't have something to do with drag queen trannies.

[cjcampbell]

But if God lived a life like Christ lived, wherein he was the savior of a world, or even if he lived a life like we live, wherein he existed as a mere ordinary inhabitant of a world, then "God" referred to a different person. And a sin, as defined at that time would have been to go contrary to the will of HIS Father. Ergo, he could have sin.

However, based on what Christ said, God did not sin.

It think that is stretching it. The point is it does not matter. When we become like God we will have never sinned, either. That is the whole point of the atonement.

[jadams_4242]

It think that is stretching it. The point is it does not matter. When we become like God we will have never sinned, either. That is the whole point of the atonement.

I absolutely agree with that.

[Olavarria]

FYI - I am not anti

Looking for refs besides the KFD on the subject ( that appears to support the idea indeed that the Father was like our Savior and therefore sinless.

BTW - The KFD is it related to the KFC sermon?

I know your not. Im just explaining what that site and other like it are doing. Other "thought bombs" include ad hominums like: you are not a christian, are a bigot, racist, homophobe(I WASN'T AWARE THAT THIS WAS A DOCUMENTED MENTAL ILLNESS) etc. The idea is to shock people into not thinking.

[jkfrost]

I know your not. Im just explaining what that site and other like it are doing. Other "thought bombs" include ad hominums like: you are not a christian, are a bigot, racist, homophobe(I WASN'T AWARE THAT THIS WAS A DOCUMENTED MENTAL ILLNESS) etc. The idea is to shock people into not thinking.

gotcha - i maybe slow but i dont do gud work.