S. Tanner On Bible Answer Man

[coolrok7]

Why can't you say the same about the LDS Church? The Catholic Church also teaches many things which are against 'orthodox' Christianity, in your view.

I've stated the following before (in ZLMB):

Mormons can be Christian in their faith but "Mormonism" is not Christian.

Luther was a Roman Catholic priest so I could consider the Roman Catholicism of Luther (as far as he could agree) as being Christian (part of the body of Christ) while not accepting certain Roman Catholic dogma which is not Biblical. I hold the same test for everyone. The biblical teaching is the determining factor.

[CQUIRK]

Ok, I see where you're coming from.

But I highly recommend you look at the Fairwiki website and compare their rebuttals to myths & anti-Mormon claims to your views on the LDS Church.

You just might be enlightened.

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Yay! My 100th post!

[Dale]

So according to you, which is the correct view to hold to?

I saw arguments for both views I found persuasive? In the end I went with the view I became more confident in. I knew I doubted Evangelicalism, so that left me to accept one of two choices. A more correct view for me may not be for another. I tried to use the Barean test when I made my choice. (Acts 17:11) Maybe my view is wrong. So much religious conversation's are wasted on having to be right. I am open to God telling me I was wrong if I am wrong.

I am confident both churches were right up to 1844. We tend to think ourselve's Joseph Smith got to speculative in Nauvoo. But other than document differences we accept the Doctrine and Covenants as scripture. We accept with the LDS the Book of Mormon as scripture. My copy of Joseph Smith's First Vision is basically the same as the LDS use. I accept Joseph Smith as a prophet. I accept the Restoration Jesus as my Jesus.

[MormonMason]

In Joseph Smith's rewrite of the Gospel of John, it, the BOM states (there is no manuscript evidence for the distortion of Joseph Smith to God's Word, the Bible; the underlined words are the addition of Joseph Smith):

In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God. (JST, Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible)

Hmmm... Where in the BOM is that again? I think you got yourself confused. And, not everything in the JST has early manuscript support. That does not make it untrue. Many of us also know that there are a variety of readings of various manuscripts, no two of which agree in all particulars. With such variety, the loss of one postulated reading in the manuscript tradition does not nullify Joseph Smith's rendering of the passage, particularly if our claim to Latter-day revelation is true.

The Biblical Gospel:

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Interesting, that. Compare the above quote to the following:

The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, "that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven;" and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.

(Elders' Journal of the Church of Latter Day Saints, 1 (October 1837-August 1838): 3, Far West, Missouri, July 1838, 44; see also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 49; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 121)

[Zakuska]

The Reformation was in part, a response by Luther, to the teaching of the selling of indulgences of Roman Catholicism. Luther had the following to say:

I would gladly have seen all my books forgotten and destroyed; if only for the reason that I am afraid of the example. For I see what benefit it has brought to the churches, that men have begun to collect many books and great libraries, outside and alongside of the Holy Scriptures; . . .Not only has good time been wasted, and the study of Scripture neglected; but the pure understanding of the divine Word is lost, . . .Then, too, it was our intention and our hope, when we began to put the Bible into German, that there would be less writing, and more studying and reading of the Scriptures. For all other writing should point to the Scriptures, as John pointed to Christ, when he said, â??He must increase, but I must decrease.â? . . .I only ask in all kindness, that the man who wishes at this time to have my books will by no means let them be a hindrance to his own study of the Scriptures, . . . (Luther's preface to the first part of his German Works, 1539 edition, pp.7-9)

This in contrast to Joseph's view of himself, Brigham Youngs view of Joseph (also in contrast with Charles Taze Russell of the Jehovah's Witnesses):

God made Aaron to be mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in his stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it. (History of the Church, Joseph Smith, Vol. 6:319-20)

Every intelligent person under the heavens that does not, when informed, acknowledge that Joseph Smith Jr. is a Prophet of God, is in darkness, and is opposed to us and to Jesus and his kingdom on the earth. (Journal of Discourses, 8:223, Brigham Young)

God gave Brother Russell to the church to be as a mouthpiece for him; and those who claim to have learned the truth apart from Brother Russell and his writings have been manifested by the Lord as deceivers, ready to lead the flock of God in their way. Since Brother Russell's death the evidence of God's favor upon the Society, which was organized by Brother Russell for the furtherance of the Lord's work, has been manifested as clearly as it was previously upon him. . . . (The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1922, p.279)

Coolkrok7 is using this example... to play a game of smoke and mirrors... He's playing Luther down as a humble follower of Jesus Christ where as Joseph Smith and the Mormons and the JW's are portrayed as usurping the throne of God.

Ex. 7: 1

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Now I ask you... who actually has the more scriptural approach? One must wonder... Why did Paul do the exact same thing as Joseph Smith?

2 Cor. 5: 20

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

[cdowis]

The Mormon Church (LDS) did not exist in the first century

Christ disagrees with you. (e.g. DC section one). He restored His church in 1830, the same organization which He had founded in the first century. Its modern name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Same church.

I can choose to believe you, or to accept Christ's words. I chose the latter. You have no authority nor knowledge to make this statement. Only your opinion.

[Dale]

One area I doubt the Evangelical Gospel is the idea the Bible was ever intended to be the final authority in faith, or practice. So the restoration wouldn't need to match exactly 1st century old world Christianity. By the way it wasn't a restoration of merely the old world church, but the Nephite Christian church also. It kind of combined thing's present in both developing versions of the church.

Certain Bible scriptures are commonly used to try and disprove Mormon doctrine. I wasn't convinced these scriptures made an unquestionable case against the LDS belief as some do. I see the new Testament idea of the person's of God as coming close to teaching two God's. So I don't see Isa.43:10 as helping to get LDS people to agree to embrace the creed's.