Elohim And Heavenly Mother

[JasonH]

If there was only one correct way to understand Yahweh, and all others should have been abolished, is it reasonable that Asherah should be viewed the same way?

Sure. However, Yahweh wasnâ??t abolished. Asherah was. And I think this furthers my point.

Again, as I have argued, if the problem they had with the Israelites worshipping Asherah, was based simply on their â??misunderstandingâ? of her, then there would be no real reason to abolish her. They misunderstood Yahweh, but didnâ??t abolish him. Asherah was excised, Yahweh wasnâ??t.

However CES materials depict the situation, I find that the scriptures encourage me to take a better look at what happened and why.

I tried saying that once and David Stewart accused me of relying on the â??arm of the flesh.â? After all, youâ??re not really relying strictly on the scriptures. Youâ??re relying on non-LDS biblical scholars. I doubt the Church would find it acceptable to place that over CES material.

[e=mc2]

JasonH:

I doubt the Church would find it acceptable to place that over CES material.

Oh I don't know.......FARMS and FAIR have done just fine by this methodology using non-LDS materials over the CES materials, and none of us have got the axe yet.......

[structurecop]

JasonH:

Oh I don't know.......FARMS and FAIR have done just fine by this methodology using non-LDS materials over the CES materials, and none of us have got the axe yet.......

Be careful when you bring up Josiah's reform in Sunday School though, or you just might find yourself in the Bishop's office being told that your interest in history is secondary to toeing the party line.

[Kevin Christensen]

Not even the notorious 1945 teaching message insinuated that when CES materials have spoken, the thinking has been done.

Seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, is what the scripture says. It does not say "out of the approved books," out of the "correlated books," out of the "CES class handouts." If it so happens that some CES material merits credit as the best books, all well and good.

And in a free society, anyone who disapproves of my sources, conclusions is free to object, FWIW.

After all, youâ??re not really relying strictly on the scriptures.

Not strictly, but then I'm not part of the sola scripture tradition. So I don't see that as a negative.

Youâ??re relying on non-LDS biblical scholars.

Some of the sources I noted are LDS. I'm LDS and I have done some original reading. I've even done some praying and listening when the non-LDS Biblical scholars weren't watching over me. Joseph Smith famously said the LDS should gather up all the good we can from all sources. I notice that Professor Sexias was not selected for the school of the prophets because he was LDS but because he knew Hebrew.

I find this a rather strange criticism, given the LDS tradition I know. Negativity for its own sake. As though the taste of "living waters" should cause mental paralysis and circumscribe all fields of inquiry.

I doubt the Church would find it acceptable to place that over CES material.

After Paradigms Regained came out, Professor Noel Reynolds informed me that the Dean of Religion at BYU had provided copies to most of his faculty. That did not feel to me as though CES was anxious to slap me down.

Institutional changes take time. I don't have a problem with that. I understand and sympathize with bureaucratic inertia and people of conservative temperament. They have to start somewhere and they have to consider the needs of the largest numbers of people across a range of ages, cultures, and backgrounds. But I'm not going to wait around for the institutional materials to make progress before I do, nor do I feel the need to ask permission from anyone in or out of any institution to do so.

The glory of God being what it is, that would seem to me the equivalent of burying my talents.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[William Schryver]

I've replied to the ideas being discussed in this thread, but did so in the new thread that appeared to supersede this one:

My Post

[e=mc2]

Structurecop:

Be careful when you bring up Josiah's reform in Sunday School though, or you just might find yourself in the Bishop's office being told that your interest in history is secondary to toeing the party line.

No, I'm not about to tow the party line, never have in my ward, never will. When I need the Hebrew, I trot it out and work with it in lessons. Same with Greek, etc. If it's not party line, it has never gotten me into trouble. Even if it did, I would simply say you read it your way, I'll read it mine and perhaps there is some common agreement.

[structurecop]

Structurecop:

No, I'm not about to tow the party line, never have in my ward, never will. When I need the Hebrew, I trot it out and work with it in lessons. Same with Greek, etc. If it's not party line, it has never gotten me into trouble. Even if it did, I would simply say you read it your way, I'll read it mine and perhaps there is some common agreement.

I agree, Kerry. Unfortunately I had exactly the experience I described (interestingly, though, when I asked to be released several members expressed their disappointment that I would no longer be teaching).

[e=mc2]

I suspect it could differ with different wards. I am sorry you aren't teaching. Heck if I was in your ward, I'd attend yer class, you heretik you! WIth me as a heretik student and you as the heretik teacher we could be a couple of hairy ticks......

[e=mc2]

Ron Beron:

Don't apologize Kerry, you're doing the yeoman's duty. People assume that because we advocate an idea that was practiced eons ago we have it in our minds that we actually believe in it. The truth is that these are archetypes of societal belief. What was believed thousands of years ago isn't too different than what we believe today. I think whatever societal and cultural evolution we have gained is still overshadowed by our past and will continue to be so in the future.

Oh, my apoloogy is simply to refine my own understanding. I am all for learning and unlearning and still believing and gaining greater insight. We all have things to learn from each other even though we don't see eye to eye.