Circumcision's Purpose

[Selah]

Jesus would have most certainly benn circumcised. In fact there is mention of it somewhere. One of the points I was makingt at least as far as Uncle Dale goes is tha that Jesus' death was the final sacrifice. It was once and for all. You make it into Heaven by the Blood of Jesus. Works don;t get you there but in a manner of speaking blood does. In this case it is the blood of Jesus.

[Uncle Dale]

Jesus would have most certainly benn circumcised. In fact there is mention of it somewhere. One of the points I was makingt at least as far as Uncle Dale goes is tha that Jesus' death was the final sacrifice. It was once and for all. You make it into Heaven by the Blood of Jesus. Works don;t get you there but in a manner of speaking blood does. In this case it is the blood of Jesus.

I cheerfully disagree -- that blood has any power of this sort. Blood is blood, and that is all there is

to it. No one person's blood has any special power not found in another's -- unless we are here talking

about matching blood types for medicinal purposes, or the fact that blood can carry pathogens, etc.

Nor is God now (nor ever in the past, nor ever in the future) a demander of blood, or burnt offerings,

or whatever fleshy sacrifices primitive people thought so important.

No blood need be spilled for God to love us -- God loves us no more, nor less, whether blood is spilt

or not. In and of itself, blood is not "precious" nor does it satiate any godly demands.

What IS IMPORTANT is sacrifice -- and any person who will lay down their life for another, makes the

supreme sacrifice. That is what all past peoples have thought of as a "hero."

But, even more importantant is OBEDIENCE -- "to obey is better than sacrifice." The obedience of

Jesus is where our attention ought most to rest -- his obedience to the God of Israel and his perfect

obedience to the "oral law" -- gospel -- which is the spirit of the Torah.

Is Jesus any more the mediator of the covenant because his blood was spilt, than if he had given his

life in some other fashion? Let's say that the son of the Lord of the Vineyard had been stoned and thus

died (see Jesus' parable on the same) --- would his heroism be any less than in crucifixion? -- No.

Lessons to be learned here:

1. It matters not whether Thomas saw nail-prints, or a foreskin, or any other distinguishing mark

upon Jesus' body --- what matters is that he returned to the disciples (and to us) with a love that

even death cannot extinguish.

2. It matters not whether Jesus' giving himself up, was in the garden, or on the cross, or at some

other time. It was not the shedding of blood here that is so important -- it is his obedience --

the fact that he was willing to give his life in order to capture our attention and empathy, and thus

obey "for us," where we imperfect beings cannot.

3. No universal vicarious atonement was wrought in Jesus' death, whereby God's anger or God's

demands for justice were satiated by the infinite suffering of a sinless man. That is not what the

Redemption is ---- at best, that sort of thing is a barbaric token which our minds fix upon -- a sign

of something far greater and for more important for us as God's wandering children.

4. Did Jesus have to die? No doubt he did -- at least he himself came to that very conclusion, and in

so doing he did indeed pay an ultimate price. But not as a ransom for our souls. He died to show us

all what messiahship entails -- what the end consequences of truly obeying God are. And that is

rejection and scorn by a world that to this very day does not understand what is right and wrong.

5. Does God demand/expect "Gentiles" to adopt and conform to every jot and tittle of Torah? Does

God demand circumcision as a sign of our entrance into His covenant? Of course not. We are called

to observe a higher "Torah" than the written law.

We are called to be perfect, even as our Father in Heaven is perfect.

Uncle Dale

[e=mc2]

Unka Beloved Dale:

5. Does God demand/expect "Gentiles" to adopt and conform to every jot and tittle of Torah? Does

God demand circumcision as a sign of our entrance into His covenant? Of course not. We are called

to observe a higher "Torah" than the written law.

James the Just is turning in his grave!

[Uncle Dale]

Unka Beloved Dale:

James the Just is turning in his grave!

I knew James the Just -- James the Just was a friend of mine. -- You're no .....

Oops, wrong script!

UD

[AeonJ]

I know this is embarrassing but I forgot I made this thread and don't have time to read all of it; Is there anyway I can get a brief (if not very brief) summary.

[Uncle Dale]

I know this is embarrassing but I forgot I made this thread and don't have time to read all of it; Is there anyway I can get a brief (if not very brief) summary.

One sentence summary:

Circumcision is an ancient practice adopted by the Jews, to show compliance with the covenant,

but which was transcended in the gospel of Jesus and in his fulfilment of that covenant's law.

UD