Women And The Priesthood

[auteur55]

That's nice and well except what about the scriptures then? The Book of Mormon? Anything Joseph said or was given in the D&C? Why bother with anything the dead ones said then? We are completely wasting our Priesthood time this year on Spencer W. Kimball, he's dead.......... why aren't we reading what President Hinckley has written and said?

The dead prophets counsel on spiritual matters will almost always have relevance to us today and these great men's words should be studied and pondered. I think Packers statement applies to practices and how the church is run. For instance if a prophet today says Polygamy should be stopped we listen to that prophet. We don't keep living Polygamy because John Taylor said we should. We follow living prophets but the teachings from past prophets that can make us better people and understand God's kingdom better we study forever. Notice that the church manuals pick out what is most relevant to us today. They don't include teachings on Polygamy.

Maybe this is a good question for Packer.

[Brian's Mom]

Lachoneus: Just thought I'd mention I don't think it was so much that Joseph Smith was thinking about conferring the priesthood on women so much as they had a more fluid way of seeing how people were endowed with the priesthood then we do today. Interestingly enough, we tend to have more references from Brigham Young on this issue than Joseph Smith. I don't think it mirrors how we see men endowed with priesthood today, but it does seem to infer a different way of viewing women's endowments to that power in some capacity.

1) biblical ties back to female inclusion of priesthood in some capacity

Joseph's uncle John Smith, who spent months with Joseph personally getting instruction from his side in matters of the understanding, gave patriarchal blessings to women that make such associations:

a)In his blessing to Caroline Cottam in Mar 1853, he referred to the â??Priesthood which Abraham sealed upon his daughters.â? (John Smith patriarchal blessing to Caroline Cottam, 26 Mar 1853, LDS archives)

b)In his blessing to Mary Bean in May of 1853, he asserted, "â??I seal upon you all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the Priesthood that was sealed upon the daughters of Jacob in the land of Egyptâ?¦â?(John Smith blessing to Elizabeth Bean, 1 May 1853, Goerge Washington Bean journal, Book 1, 79-80, Archives, Lee Library, BYU)

c) In his blesssing to Louisa jackson, he asserted that â??thou art of the blood of Abraham through the loins of Manasseh & lawful heir to the Priesthood,â??(John Smith patriarchal blessing to Louisa C Jackson, 6 Feb 1844, RLDS archives).

Bathsheba W Bigler Smith, who was a plural wife of Joseph Smith too, is often quoted here in terms of her associating priesthood and women back to the biblical times:

"I have always been pleased that I had my endowments when the Prophet livedâ?¦he gave us everything, every order of the priesthoodâ?¦.he said he had given the sisters instructions that they could administer to the sick and he wanted to make us, as the women in Paulâ??s day, â??a Kingdom of priestesses."(Bathsheba Smith Statement, 9 June 1905, Pioneer Stake Relief Society minutes, LDS archives)

2)Some Brigham Young quotes

a) When Brigham Young's wife Mary received her endowments on Nov. 1, 1843, he wrote in his journal, "â??Mary A Young admitted to the hiest order of the Priesthood â?(Brigham Young Diary 29 Oct, 1 Nov 1843, copies in Donald R Moorman papers, ARchives, Weber State University). Now this is key here, because Mary did not receive her Second Anointing with Brigham Young until three weeks later. It was with her endowments that this admittance was acknowledged.

b)He also pointed out that both men and women need to honor their priesthood: â??Now Brethren, the man that honors his priesthood, the woman that honors her priesthood, will receive an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of God.â? (JD 17:119)

c) Orson Hyde also made similar points in the following revelation and shared in the Navoo Temple in 1846: "â??The Priesthood holds the power and all have been ordained or ought to be. It is necessary that it should rest upon all, not upon men only but upon women also that ye may be all one. â?¦â?

(Bullock Minutes, 15 March 1846, BYU Studies Vol. 31, No. 1 p 61.)

Wow

I'm not insisting Joseph intended for women to hold the priesthood. But given his natural, ever-evolving understanding of his religion, as well as his inherit, generous gift of inclusion, it would not surprise me at all if he did.

If this is true, I believe it is extremely unfortunate he died before this principle became more established.

Mom

[e=mc2]

Auteur55:

The dead prophets counsel on spiritual matters will almost always have relevance to us today and these great men's words should be studied and pondered. I think Packers statement applies to practices and how the church is run. For instance if a prophet today says Polygamy should be stopped we listen to that prophet. We don't keep living Polygamy because John Taylor said we should. We follow living prophets but the teachings from past prophets that can make us better people and understand God's kingdom better we study forever. Notice that the church manuals pick out what is most relevant to us today. They don't include teachings on Polygamy.

Maybe this is a good question for Packer.

Yeah, I was just asking you to clarify. Thanks..........

[grego]

rpn wrote:

However this will work out in the eternities, Heavenly Father clearly now wants men to used the priesthood power.

Succinct.

-=-=-=

Brian's Mom,

I really don't see anything in any of those quotes tha implies priesthood, though to BIC LDS it might seem that way.

[SquarePeg48]

All of what's been posted has been quite informative. I would like to add that the Spirit moves on women and men alike to use their gifts for the blessing of mankind. I have also had some personal experience with the "priesthood" held by women.

I had a son who suffered a severe brain injury in an accident as a small child. One night, his father was gone, it was the middle of the night and I had no idea even who the home teachers were. He was moaning and crying in pain about something, since he was non-verbal it was impossible to know what. He had not slept longer than 2 hours at a stretch due to pain since his accident. I pleaded with the Lord how to help my son. Into my mind came long-forgotten readings describing Eliza R. Snow and others laying hands on one another and giving blessings, and the clear impression was to do the same. So, in the name of the Savior, I did lay my hands on him and as his mother, gave him a blessing. He fell asleep in my arms, and for the first time in 3 months, slept 8 hours. Later, when he was older and dying, our bishop refused to give him a blessing of "release" and again the Spirit prompted me that I was entitled to do this; I did and he died within hours.

I have come to understand that we as women are clearly entitled to use our authority as mothers and wives or as daughters of God in a covenant relationship with Christ to bless others in whatever way we are called upon by the Spirit of God. I agree with Nibley that the Priesthood is for the blessing and control of the elements and spirits.

Square Peg

[Brian's Mom]

All of what's been posted has been quite informative. I would like to add that the Spirit moves on women and men alike to use their gifts for the blessing of mankind. I have also had some personal experience with the "priesthood" held by women.

I had a son who suffered a severe brain injury in an accident as a small child. One night, his father was gone, it was the middle of the night and I had no idea even who the home teachers were. He was moaning and crying in pain about something, since he was non-verbal it was impossible to know what. He had not slept longer than 2 hours at a stretch due to pain since his accident. I pleaded with the Lord how to help my son. Into my mind came long-forgotten readings describing Eliza R. Snow and others laying hands on one another and giving blessings, and the clear impression was to do the same. So, in the name of the Savior, I did lay my hands on him and as his mother, gave him a blessing. He fell asleep in my arms, and for the first time in 3 months, slept 8 hours. Later, when he was older and dying, our bishop refused to give him a blessing of "release" and again the Spirit prompted me that I was entitled to do this; I did and he died within hours.

I have come to understand that we as women are clearly entitled to use our authority as mothers and wives or as daughters of God in a covenant relationship with Christ to bless others in whatever way we are called upon by the Spirit of God. I agree with Nibley that the Priesthood is for the blessing and control of the elements and spirits.

Square Peg

What a lovely mother you are.

Mom