Jerubaal Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 Professor flint, visiting from Trinity Western University in Canada, and an expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls, had an open question and answer pizza party for members of Students of the Ancient Near East (SANE). I took the chance to ask him in Mahujah or Mahijah were valid translations of MHWY in the 4QGiants scroll of the DSS.He stated it was a plausible translation, but that he would have to look into it further. He gave me the name of a professor who has specialized on the 4QGiants scroll, and I will contact him within the next 24 hours.Also, since CK is likely to be reading this thread at some point, I'd like to suggest Trinity Western as a place for him to get his MA. It is cheap (12k US a year) and has a high rate of graduates going onto Berkeley, Chicago, etc. The program can take 1 year if you are fast, but Professor Flint recommended 2 years. They only provide MA's, but they have a good track record of jump starting grads into prestigious PhD programs.
Nevo Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 He stated it was a plausible translation, but that he would have to look into it further. He gave me the name of a professor who has specialized on the 4QGiants scroll, and I will contact him within the next 24 hours.I especially look forward to seeing how the element "WY" can be plausibly rendered as "-jah".
Bill Hamblin Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 I especially look forward to seeing how the element "WY" can be plausibly rendered as "-jah".Mahujah MaHWYa(H) The W is read as a long vowel, not a consonent. The Y is, of course, generally written as J in English, based on Latinate transliteration. (e.g. Jehovah from YHWH).
Jerubaal Posted October 13, 2006 Author Posted October 13, 2006 I just sent the e-mail. Here's what it said:Professor Stuckenbruck:I am a student at Brigham Young University, majoring in Ancient Near Eastern Studies. Dr. Peter Flint of Trinity Western delivered several lectures at our university in the past few days. I had an opportunity to ask him a question about the Dead Sea Scrolls, particularly concerning a name in the 4QGiants Enoch scroll. He suggested that I direct my question to you.In 4Q giants, there is a figure by the name MHWY. In Genesis 4:18 the name MHWY-EL is translated Mehuja-El. I was wondering if "Mahujah" was a plausible translation of the name MHWY. Also, if there were a scribal error at some point that caused the name to be transmitted MHYY, would "Mahijah" be a plausible translation?Thank you for your time and concern.-William McBrideI'll let you all know when I get an answer.EDIT: Oh, and here is the info on the professor I contacted. I only skimmed, but he seems to have done a fair bit of work on Enoch and the DSS. http://www.dur.ac.uk/theology.religion/staff/?id=673
consiglieri Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 Thanks for the legword, Jerubaal.I, too, will try to keep an eye on this thread to see what the response is to your e-mail.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Olavarria Posted October 13, 2006 Posted October 13, 2006 Jerubabbel, thanks for the work. Lets just hope the professor you emailed has never read the Book of Moses.
Jerubaal Posted October 13, 2006 Author Posted October 13, 2006 Apparently he hasn't head of it, Her Amun. From what i gather from his answer, he basically said "it's possible"here it is:Dear William,Thank you for drawing my attention to Gen. 4:18 in relation to the name MHWY. There may be some relation between the name MHWY'L (where H is a 'chet' not 'he') and the giant's name (without it being theophoric, i.e. without 'el).Of course, the Masoretic pointing and Greek transliteration in the LXX do not have to be followed if we simply work with the consonants themselves. Perhaps the ancient pointings/vocalisations may be understood as deliberate attempts to distance the name from one associated with a giant (since the story about the giants, as that about Enoch, must have been very old).I'm glad you heard the lectures by Dr. Flint, which must have been very interesting.If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to do so.In the meantime, very best wishes,Loren StuckenbruckI'd like to hear what the various Semitophiles here think of this.
Jerubaal Posted October 14, 2006 Author Posted October 14, 2006 Bumpity. For all you folks to see. I sent him an additional e-mail, and in this one I told him about Joseph Smith's Book of Enoch, and gave him a link to it, asking his opinion. I let him know I wasn't trying to convert him or anything, and said I was just interested in how a relatively un-biased scholar would weigh in on the matter.
Jerubaal Posted October 14, 2006 Author Posted October 14, 2006 Jeru, so what exactly was she saying?Let me try to explain to the best of my limited knowledge. Hebrew didn't have vowels until a few centuries after Christ, when the masoretes develepoed a system of vowel "ointers". I believe Prof. Stuckenbruck (who is a man, not a woman, BTW) is saying that perhaps the name MHWY-EL (I think he is specifically referring to the EL at the end of the name) in Genesis 4 was an attempt by the Masoretes or earlier scribes to draw the name away from the name of one of the giants of Enoch lore.
Olavarria Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 ergo, mhwy may very well be vocalized as mahuja.
Chris Smith Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Jerubaal,I am curious what the prof. would say to my specific objections.Thanks for the legwork. So far the experts do seem to be agreed that yes, Mahujah is a valid possible transliteration.-CK
Olavarria Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 "mahuja, mahija girl i wanna take ya, to, bermuda bahama c'mon pretty momma...." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaomFSacGq8
Nevo Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Mahujah MaHWYa(H) The W is read as a long vowel, not a consonent. The Y is, of course, generally written as J in English, based on Latinate transliteration. (e.g. Jehovah from YHWH).Thanks for the clarification. I took an introductory Hebrew course several years ago but obviously I didn't master the matres lectionis. I feel a bit embarrassed now given my previous outspokenness on this subject. In any case, it seems most (all?) of the English translations of the Book of Giants read the waw as a consonant; e.g., Vermes, Garc
Chris Smith Posted October 14, 2006 Posted October 14, 2006 Thanks for the clarification. I took an introductory Hebrew course several years ago but obviously I didn't master the matres lectionis. I feel a bit embarrassed now given my previous outspokenness on this subject. In any case, it seems most (all?) of the English translations of the Book of Giants read the waw as a consonant; e.g., Vermes, Garc
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