Psalms 90:2 and Joseph Smiths King Follet Discourse

[Ceeboo]

Why would Jesus ascend to himself? and how can a God have a God?

Perhaps he's LDS?

Peace,

Ceeboo

[LeSellers]

I am guessing that there are some human beings ... that ... would hold that [the Nicean creed] is deeply cemented in Scripture.

We'd expect they could demonstrate this. No one has done so.

Lehi

[jesussavesbygrace]

Oh, please!

So when the scriptures say "____ and ____ are one" means that the two are the same being?

Really? Is that the argument you want to make?

John 10:31 says "The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him." Its obvious that he was claiming to be God. So in essence you are saying that Jesus is a lunatic or a liar.

[ELF1024]

I am guessing that there are some human beings (at least 8 or 9 on this planet) that would disagree with you and would indeed consider the Nicean creed to be not only "correct" but they would hold that it is deeply cemented in Scripture.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Just goes to show that you can fool some of the people some of the time.

[Ceeboo]

We'd expect they could demonstrate this. No one has done so.

Lehi

Pearls before swine???

Peace,

Ceeboo

[ELF1024]

John 10:31 says "The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him." Its obvious that he was claiming to be God. So in essence you are saying that Jesus is a lunatic or a liar.

Jesus is the Son of God, and a member of the Godhead, but he is not God the Father. He is not Eloheim. He is Jehovah.

[Ceeboo]

Just goes to show that you can fool some of the people some of the time.

Indeed!

Peace,

Ceeboo

[jesussavesbygrace]

So Jesus is standing on his own hand?

So Jesus landed on himself?

Jesus was talking to himself?

The Nicean creed is wrong. It is incorrect. It is not supported by the Bible.

All the scriptural quotes you gave me is when Jesus was speaking as a human. Like I said he was fully God and fully man. He also eat, drank, slept... Those are all human attributes. You get it.

Also, you did not refute any of my scriptural quotes. Face it, the mormon Jesus is not the Biblical Jesus.

[Vance]

So in essence you are saying that Jesus is a lunatic or a liar.

Nice strawman. Have fun wasting your time beating it up.

[jesussavesbygrace]

Jesus is the Son of God, and a member of the Godhead, but he is not God the Father. He is not Eloheim. He is Jehovah.

What do you mean by "a member" of the Godhead? Also what did He mean by "the Father and I are one?"

[Vance]

Like I said he was fully God and fully man.

False doctrine not supported by the Bible, and therefore NOT the Biblical Jesus.

[urroner]

I like this thread. Let me sum it up:

I'm right!!!

No you aren't!!! I'm right!!!!

You're a fool. Show me in the Bible where you are right!!!!

No, you're the fools. Just read the Bible for yourself and you'll see that everything I believe is backed up by the Bible.

I have read the Bible and it says you are a fool. Wait, you're not a fool, you're a DAMN FOOL!!!!

Whenever you talk, all I hear is yada yada yada.

CB, I haven't included you in the above.

[Vance]

Also what did He mean by "the Father and I are one?"

Well, maybe, just maybe, He meant that they were united in purpose. Kind of like when Paul said this,

1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth (Paul) and he that watereth (Apollos) are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Or like when Jesus said,

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

[jesussavesbygrace]

Nice strawman. Have fun wasting your time beating it up.

Fine if you don't want to debate anymore.

You still have time to come to the real Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible. The mormon Jesus and all the other (false religions) of what Jesus is can't save you.

John 3:16

[Vance]

Fine if you don't want to debate anymore.

Another strawman. You are getting good at creating them.

You still have time to come to the real Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible.

That is good advise. But I have already been there, done that.

You should keep your own advise.

Here is a clue for you, the "mormon Jesus" IS the Biblical Jesus.

[ELF1024]

All the scriptural quotes you gave me is when Jesus was speaking as a human. Like I said he was fully God and fully man. He also eat, drank, slept... Those are all human attributes. You get it.

Jesus speaking as a human? Do you have any idea what you are saying? Are you meaning to imply that Jesus was possessed by God?

Jesus was diety from before the world was formed. He was fully diety and fully human, ALL THE TIME. There wasn't a time when Jesus was just human, or a time when he was just diety.

Also, you did not refute any of my scriptural quotes. Face it, the mormon Jesus is not the Biblical Jesus.

If you are trying to say that your idea of a man possessed by a God is not the Jesus of the Bible, I couldn't agree with you more. However, I don't really think that you understand the nature of God. Arguing with a blind man, who has been blind from birth, about what color "Red" is; is just as pointless as aruging with someone about the nature of God.

What do you mean by "a member" of the Godhead? Also what did He mean by "the Father and I are one?"

God the Father (Elohim); Jesus Christ (Jehovah), and the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) are all seperate and unqiue people. They are one in purpose. (for more information, go HERE)

Just as a mother and father may be "one in purpose" to bring forth productive and healthy children. They are not "One Person", but they are one in purpose.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am guessing that there are some human beings (at least 8 or 9 on this planet) that would disagree with you and would indeed consider the Nicean creed to be not only "correct" but they would hold that it is deeply cemented in Scripture.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Dear Ceeboo,

When some Christians come here to post and tell us about our beleifs in a dogmatic way some times we LDS respond in kind.

Please note that I am not excusing any behavior on the part of LDS but trying to explain what happens in some threads.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What do you mean by "a member" of the Godhead?

Just that, that Jesus is part of the God Head that inculdes the Father and the HG.

Also what did He mean by "the Father and I are one?"

I am willing to bet that he meant it in the same manner as it is use in John 17:20-21.

Certainly not in a metaphysical way.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Fine if you don't want to debate anymore.

Other than you, who has claimed that they don't want to debate anymore?

You still have time to come to the real Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible. The mormon Jesus and all the other (false religions) of what Jesus is can't save you.

John 3:16

And who is this "real" Jesus. When we talk about Jesus we don't mean the one down at the taco stand? Is that why you are getting confused?

[ElfLord]

All the scriptural quotes you gave me is when Jesus was speaking as a human. Like I said he was fully God and fully man. He also eat, drank, slept... Those are all human attributes. You get it.

Jesus was a ressurected being at the time when he spoke it. So he was not speaking "as a human" He was Fully God again. You also missed the fact that he gives his power and glory back to his father. Not himself.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I like this thread. Let me sum it up:

I'm right!!!

No you aren't!!! I'm right!!!!

You're a fool. Show me in the Bible where you are right!!!!

No, you're the fools. Just read the Bible for yourself and you'll see that everything I believe is backed up by the Bible.

I have read the Bible and it says you are a fool. Wait, you're not a fool, you're a DAMN FOOL!!!!

Whenever you talk, all I hear is yada yada yada.

CB, I haven't included you in the above.

To some extent this is an accurate representation of this thread. I am guilty.

[ElfLord]

Well, maybe, just maybe, He meant that they were united in purpose. Kind of like when Paul said this,

1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth (Paul) and he that watereth (Apollos) are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Or like when Jesus said,

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

How about?

1 Corinthians 6:17

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

or- The cosmic couple?

Mark 10:8

And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

[jesussavesbygrace]

Other than you, who has claimed that they don't want to debate anymore?

And who is this "real" Jesus. When we talk about Jesus we don't mean the one down at the taco stand? Is that why you are getting confused?

Your Jesus is different than the Biblical Jesus. I mean, how many ways can the Bible say that Jesus is God.(John 1:1-14, John 8:58, John 10:30, Col.1:16,17, Hebrews 13: The mormons don't believe that. Therefore, if the mormon doctrine is not the same as Biblical doctrine then you have a different religion. Its not a restored gospel but a whole new religion which unfortunately is false. Jesus warned in Matt. 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." I say Joseph Smith fits the bill pretty well.

Still you have not proven otherwise that Joseph contradicted the Bible when he said that God has not always been God when the Bible clearly states that He has been God from everlasting to everlasting.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Your Jesus is different than the Biblical Jesus. I mean, how many ways can the Bible say that Jesus is God.(John 1:1-14, John 8:58, John 10:30, Col.1:16,17, Hebrews 13: The mormons don't believe that.

The bible never once says "And Jesus is God".

Jesus does make the claim to be Jehovah though. And Jehovah is one of the son's of El.

ACtually we do, we just don't follow your rigid interpretations of the bible.

Therefore, if the mormon doctrine is not the same as Biblical doctrine then you have a different religion.

Actually what you mean to say is that mormon doctrine is not the same as your doctrine. Well duh, I could have stated the obvious to, but I wont.

Its not a restored gospel but a whole new religion which unfortunately is false. Jesus warned in Matt. 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." I say Joseph Smith fits the bill pretty well.

For there to be a warning of false prophets that would mean that there are real prophets. I think you are a false prophet brother.

Still you have not proven otherwise that Joseph contradicted the Bible when he said that God has not always been God when the Bible clearly states that He has been God from everlasting to everlasting.

ACtually it is you that have utterly failed to make your case. Everlasting to Everlasting does not mean from eternity past to eternity futre. It never has and it never will.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Psalms 90:2 says "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from Everlasting to Everlasting, thou [art] God."

Joseph Smith in his King Follet Discourse says "We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see."(History of the Church Vol. 6 pg. 305)

How do you explain Joseph's contradiction of the Bible?

How did I know...oh the screen name.