Intresting Biblical Canundrum

[Zakuska]

Jeremiah 32:35

35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Ez 20

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.

So did God command them by statutes not to?

Or did he actually give them satutes to do it so they would sin?

We can't have it both ways.

[frankenstein]

so you are saying that God did not place Adam and Eve in a situation where they have to disobey God?

[Saints Alive]

If you are in a situation whereby you have to sin do you really have free agency?

[Zakuska]

so you are saying that God did not place Adam and Eve in a situation where they have to disobey God?

No not in the least.

I'm eluding to the fact that according to scripture and the Idea of the complete soverignty of God. (as espoused by Hyper-Calvanists) Would dictate that God is just as much behind good as he is of Evil. Which leads to the question of the problem of the existance of Evil. There are other examples of this... who inspired David to number Israel?

1 Chronicles 21:1

1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Sam 24

1 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and ahe moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

[Zakuska]

If you are in a situation whereby you have to sin do you really have free agency?

If sin is defined as disobeying God, there by making sin relative to the particular situation. You still have choice. You can choose to obey God or not too.

Take Abraham, He knew that killing a child was againsts Gods commandments. But God commanded and he obeyed. And would have went through with it if God had not stayed his hand.

PS. 'Saints Alive' is a moniker that drags a lot of baggage along with it.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Zakuska

[Saints Alive]

If sin is defined as disobeying God, there by making sin relative to the particular situation. You still have choice. You can choose to obey God or not too.

If you can choose to obey God then you are not in a situation where you must sin.

[Zakuska]

If you can choose to obey God then you are not in a situation where you must sin.

If you obey Gods command that he is giving you right now even though it goes against a previous order then you are by definition put in a situation that you must sin. Because to obey God right now you have to disobey something God previous commanded.

Thats the cunundrum.

Of course LDS know that God can command you to do something he previously said not to.

Take Jacob 2:30 for example... one wife is default... unless God commands otherwise.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Zakuska

[maklelan]

Jeremiah 32:35

35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Ez 20

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.

So did God command them by statutes not to?

Or did he actually give them satutes to do it so they would sin?

We can't have it both ways.

Both verses allude to Exod 22:29, which commands Israel to offer up their firstborn sons just as they offer up their oxen and sheep. It wasn't until much later that the notion of redeeming the firstborn was developed, and in the meantime we had prophets opining the above in order to make sense of the commandment.

[Saints Alive]

If you obey Gods command that he is giving you right now even though it goes against a previous order then you are by definition put in a situation that you must sin. Because to obey God right now you have to disobey something God previous commanded.

Thats the cunundrum.

Of course LDS know that God can command you to do something he previously said not to.

Take Jacob 2:30 for example... one wife is default... unless God commands otherwise.

My take away would be that if you are told not to do something and later are told to do something that goes against what you were told not to do, that is implied consent and therefor there is no sin.

[zerinus]

Ez 20

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.

That simply means that God was angry with them because of their sins, and exercised harsh judgments against them.

Leviticus 20:

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:

Edited October 19, 2011 by zerinus