Rob Bowman Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Zakuska,You wrote:Whats amusing is Peter lied 3 times and even swore up a storm to save his own skin for being brought in on assualt charges, in scripture no less. Shall we disqualify him as a witness of Christ now? He tarnished his prophetic credibility according to you.Later Paul tells us in Scirpture no less about his little showdown he had with the cowardly Peter, then in turn Peter has a few choice words aimed back at Paul. Do any of these tangenital issues have anything to do with wether these real live sinful Human beings with body parts and passions where really called of God to do his work?None of this effects his Prophetic calling....Abraham lied about his marriage to the authorities to save his life in his own scriptures no less. Why can't Joseph Smith?You don't seem to understand what I meant when I said that Joseph Smith lied "in scripture." I mean that Joseph Smith authorized a statement in a scripture for which he was responsible that was a flat-out falsehood. In other words, the scripture itself was a lie--not a mistake, not a typo, not a slip of the pen, but a lie. And Joseph Smith was responsible for that scriptural lie.Abraham lied to the pharaoh about his wife, but he did not produce a scripture in which the scripture itself was a lie. That is the point, and that is where Joseph's behavior crossed a clear line beyond moral failure to an act that clearly reveals him to have been a false prophet.
Xander Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 It sounds exactly like the three yappy pups in France that John Taylor sent home whimpering with their tails tucked firmly between their legs.LOL!Except that never happened, and the Mormon Apostle and Prophet had to resort to outright deception. This is an indisputable fact. He lied intentionally because he couldn't deal with the facts honestly. Such is the Mormon way.But thanks for the laugh. It illustrates how apologetic mode skews one's perception, making reality irrelevant to them.
Xander Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Baloney. If you're going to bear false witness against me, I might as well call you on it.Get used to it Rob. John Taylor the proud deceiver, is Zakuska's mentor.
Xander Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I find it somewhat amusing, and very telling, that you are so quick to trash the moral character of biblical figures in your zeal to defend Joseph SmithLOL!No kidding. And they wonder why anyone would think they worship Joseph Smith. Saving Joseph is more important than saving biblical characters. I've been called a bigot by some Mormons, for saying far more innocuous things about characters mentioned in the Quran.
Xander Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 The evidence shows that Joseph lied to his own church, and even lied in his own scripture, about his polygamy. Is this really to be finessed away as an example of God using humble, ordinary people to do his work? Have you not been paying attention Rob?We could uncover an authenticated document signed by Joseph Smith, admitting he played a massive prank on humanity, and the apologists here would continue to spin and obfuscate, insisting he was everything he claimed to be. They'd say anything, and entertain any imaginable theory that could save the Church. Maybe Satan created the document to tempt the faithful? Maybe Joseph Smith was drugged and forced to sign the statement by some evil anti-Mormons? The point is, there is no amount of evidence that could ever prove to them Joseph Smith was a false prophet. None. Even when it is an indisputable fact that Joseph Smith and his associates institutionalized the tactic of lying to their audiences for the purpose of salvaging their Church, modern apologists like Zakuska can only think to make excuses for them. This in and of itself makes them unreasonable, because they are not interested in discovering truth via intelligent, rational discussion. They think they already know the truth, so if evidence from reality says otherwise, well then reality doesn't really matter to them.
Xander Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Abraham lied to the pharaoh about his wife, but he did not produce a scripture in which the scripture itself was a lie. That is the point, and that is where Joseph's behavior crossed a clear line beyond moral failure to an act that clearly reveals him to have been a false prophet.Zakuska got the point the first time. He's being obtuse for a reason. It is a popular apologetic tactic when one's back is against the ropes.
Hestia Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Sorry, Zakuska, but since a couple of posters can do nothing but throw insults this thread is being closed.
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