John The Baptist

[J Green]

Although it's been several years since I read it, Robert Eisenman's The New Testament Code has several chapters about daily bather sects that stretched throughout Palestine into southern Iraq and traditions about bathers that went back to Noah and Adam. Interesting material.

[Bill Hamblin]

There's nothing in any of the John the Baptist narratives I'm aware of that would lead one to think this was historically the case.

Paul didn't choose the word 'Church' over 'Assembly'. The KJV translators did. Luke uses the word ekklesia, quoting the septuagint, which the KJV translated as 'Church', rather than Assembly or Congregation.

But that doesn't effect the point. John's baptism doesn't appear to have any reference to any sort of initiation, and there is no talk of 'true' or 'spiritual' Israel. It would be complete speculation to say otherwise.

You should see Lawrence, Washing in Water: Trajectories of Ritual Bathing in the Hebrew Bible and Second Temple Literature (2006) on the ancient Israelite origins of purification rituals, and Ferguson, Baptism in the Early Church: History, Theology, and Liturgy in the First Five Centuries (2009) on early Christian practices.

The Mishnah (c. 200 CE) says water immersion is required for conversion. The question is whether this represents early first century practices or only late second century. The best explanation is that a convert to Judaism needed to be circumcised, and offer sacrifice at the temple. Since entry to the temple required mikvah immersion, the convert needed to be immersed as part of his conversion ritual. This practice was continued by the rabbis after the temple was destroyed and offering sacrifice was no longer required for conversion.

The Yaḥad (Community) at Qumran required ritual immersion for admission into their assembly/congregation/community = ekklēsia/qāhāl. (1QS 2.25-3.12 = G. Vermes, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English, 2nd ed. (2004) 100-1) J. Taylor, “John the Baptist and the Essenes,” Journal of Jewish Studies 47 (1996): 256-285

An interesting feature of John's immersion ritual was that John did it. When I did a mikvah immersion at the Ari Mikvah in Safed, people simply entered the pool and immersed themselves (some seven times), and then left. My link

Jesus' disciples did the same; you couldn't immerse yourself to become a Christian--though I've seen many Christians practicing self-immersion baptism in the Jordan river.

[David T]

An interesting feature of John's immersion ritual was that John did it. When I did a mikvah immersion at the Ari Mikvah in Safed, people simply entered the pool and immersed themselves (some seven times), and then left. My link

Jesus' disciples did the same; you couldn't immerse yourself to become a Christian--though I've seen many Christians practicing self-immersion baptism in the Jordan river.

Thanks, Bill.

This is a very important part. It doesn't appear that John delegated others to perform or continue his legacy. Which would make sense, with the view that he was a forerunner of an imminent Eschaton. The death of John was probably viewed by his disciples as an eschatological event making even clearer that the End was at hand, and the opportunity for recieving John's cleansing had ended.

[etana]

John seems to have been the last Prophet (Matt 11:9-14) of that dispensation. He and the Yahwist cult itself were forerunners to the Church of Jesus Christ. There was no "Christian Church" until after the resurrection of Christ. Jesus points this out when he compares his disciples with John's (Matt 9:14-17 et al). See also the cursing of the fig tree on his last entry into Jerusalem. On hearing of the passing of John, Jesus also demonstrates what the role of his apostles will be in the new Church (role of the Apostles)

[volgadon]

You should see Lawrence, Washing in Water: Trajectories of Ritual Bathing in the Hebrew Bible and Second Temple Literature (2006) on the ancient Israelite origins of purification

Funnily enough, I just found a copy the other day. If you recommnd it, I'll definitely move it up the priority list.

When I did a mikvah immersion at the Ari Mikvah in Safed, people simply entered the pool and immersed themselves (some seven times), and then left.

Did you know there are actually two of them? An old Sephardic tradition holds that the current one was only used as a mikveh after the great earthquake. One of our neighbours would always talk up the quality of the water in the lesser known one.

[volgadon]

From what I've read, it is fairly common for scholars to view the Christian baptism in general as related to Jewish proselyte baptism in some form or another. But most of them don't know exactly what to do specifically with John's baptism. Qumran, Josephus' Bannus, Philo's Theraputae, proselytes, etc. A lot of examples are considered, but nothing seems to fit the bill exactly. It's an intriguing question.

Yeah, none are a tight fit. There is a good overview entitled "The Immerser." For me I find it hard to see why immersion as part of conversing would be considered an innovation of the Mishnah, especially as it is not couched in any of the apologetic or polemic terms. Not everyone thought it essential, of course, but it is never dpecited as a novelty.

[J Green]

Immersion for repentance from sin and impurity before the coming day of the Lord takes us into the territory of the Day of Atonement, during which the HIgh Priest would immerse himself a total of five times (see Yoma 19b). The Israelites were purified to prepare to meet God in the wilderness, and the Psalms that narrate the liturgy for the fall festival have Israelites purifying themselves before they ascend up to the hill of the Lord to meet God. John's baptism prepares the repentant to meet God at the eschaton and to meet the one who comes after him.