How priesthood are chosen.

[NauvooSaint]

Vex inquired in another thread about differences in how the RLDS & LDS choose priesthood.

In the early 1830-1844 church males could be called to different priesthood offices regardless of age. As an example, It's my understanding that one of the prophet Joseph Smith's younger brothers was the president of a high priests quorum when he was yet in his late teens. When the LDS church moved to Utah, a tradition began to develop under Brigham Young of having boys progress to different offices according to their age & worthiness. (ie. 12-deacon, 14-teacher, 16-priest, 18-elder). One might think of this as a ladder for developing the individual with the goal of becoming in elder in the Melchezdek priesthood....temple endowments, etc. Nearly all 'worthy'/active males 12 & over in the LDS hold a priesthood office. 'Worthy'/active Adult male converts are commonly ordained to priest approx. 1 month after their baptism & ordained an elder approx. 1 year later. I'm not completely clear on the steps involved with calling individuals to the Aaronic & Melchezdek priesthoods in the LDS. It's my understanding calls to the Aaronic are dealt with mostly through the bishop & ward level. I'd like to hear more from LDS folks.

Traditionally in the RLDS church, calls to the priesthood originate through the presiding elder & approved by leaders at different district/stake levels as well. Not all men are called to the priesthood. If the call is approved, then the individual is told about the calling & is given the opportunity to accept it. The congregation then considers the calling at their business meeting. If approved, the calling is considered at the district/stake conference & the person ordained. For priesthood calls other than for high priest, patriarch, seventy & apostle...calls originate through the presiding elder of the congregation. In rare situations where the presiding elder is related to the individual being called or there is an emergency of sorts, a district/stake president can receive inspiration & begin the process, but usually there is a show of support by the presiding elder. Priesthood is seen more as a spectrum of ministry to the congregation rather than as a ladder to climb. I've known old men who have served as deacons in the RLDS church. It's very unusual for an individual to move from a 'higher' office to a 'lower' one.

I'll let someone from the Community of Christ shed some light on how their process may differ from the traditional RLDS process.

[NauvooSaint]

Today I came across a booklet that my ex-mother inlaw wrote entitled, 'Truth Is Eternal', by Diana R. Ludy. She passed away a couple years ago. Diana traveled to SLC in the summer of 1996 to stay a few days with distant relatives that were LDS. They shared a common ancester that joined the church in 1834. Her LDS cousins were curious about differences between the traditional RLDS & LDS churches & both sides agreed to exchange letters about eachother's churches. The editors of 'Restoration Voice' magazine (an RLDS Restorationist publication) found Diana's research helpful & her material was first published as a 6 part series in the magazine. Chapter 5 discusses Priesthood. One section examines 'Qualifications For Priesthood' between the two churches & gets into how things evolved in the LDS system over time. It's really quite an interesting read & I'd like to quote a sample:

"William G. Hartley, a research historian at Brigham Young University, reports a change of structure in the LDS Church: "Priesthood organization in Old Nauvoo differed in practice and policy from what today's Latter-day Saints see" ("Nauvoo Stake, Priesthood Quorums, and the Church's First Wards." BYU Studies 31:1:57). He explains, "Aaronic Priesthood offices were held by men, although some older boys were ordained. No priesthood office then correlated with an age group: 'Men of all ages seem to have been ordained to any of the offices in the priesthood up to and including elder to start their priesthood career' [Robert L. Marrott, "History and Functions of the Aaronic Priesthood and the Offices of Priest, Teacher, and Deacon in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1829-1844," Master thesis, BYU, 1976, p. 36]. Likewise, there was no set time period for holding any priesthood office.

"Men generally were ordained to fill specific needs, not just to receive an ordination [Marrott, p. 24]. 'Some men never held priesthood in spite of seemingly apparent abilities and commitments' [Roger Launius, "A Survey of Priesthood Ordinations, 1830-1844," Restoration Trail Forum 9:3}" (Hartley, p. 59)."

Diana then goes into how boys began being called as deacons after the Nauvoo Charter was revoked to be watchmen in the "Whistling and Whittling Brigade" since there was no longer a police force. Once in Utah, Brigham Young is quoted in Oct. 1854 JofD 2:89 saying:

"When you have got your Bishop, he needs assistance and he ordains counselors, priests, teachers and deacons, and calls them to help him; he wishes men of his own heart and hand to do this. He says 'I dare not even call a man to be a deacon, to assist me in my calling unless he has a family.' It is not the business of an ignorant young man, of no experience in family matters, to inquire into the circumstances of families and know the wants of every person. Some may want medicine and nourishment, and to be looked after, and it is not the business of boys to do this; but select a man who has got a family to be a deacon, whose wife can go with him, and assist him in administering to the needy of the ward" (Journal of Discourses2:89)."

She then goes into how changes in LDS policy occurred in July 1877 & the first signs of age being a factor in priesthood/advancment occured. Sometime later the 12, 14, 16, 18 became the norm. Anyway, I thought this was good stuff & I can't quote everything in the booklet. It's available through www.restorationbookstore.org

[Vex]

Vex inquired in another thread about differences in how the RLDS & LDS choose priesthood.

Thanks for posting this.

In the early 1830-1844 church males could be called to different priesthood offices regardless of age. As an example, It's my understanding that one of the prophet Joseph Smith's younger brothers was the president of a high priests quorum when he was yet in his late teens. When the LDS church moved to Utah, a tradition began to develop under Brigham Young of having boys progress to different offices according to their age & worthiness. (ie. 12-deacon, 14-teacher, 16-priest, 18-elder). One might think of this as a ladder for developing the individual with the goal of becoming in elder in the Melchezdek priesthood....temple endowments, etc. Nearly all 'worthy'/active males 12 & over in the LDS hold a priesthood office. 'Worthy'/active Adult male converts are commonly ordained to priest approx. 1 month after their baptism & ordained an elder approx. 1 year later. I'm not completely clear on the steps involved with calling individuals to the Aaronic & Melchezdek priesthoods in the LDS. It's my understanding calls to the Aaronic are dealt with mostly through the bishop & ward level. I'd like to hear more from LDS folks.

There is Stake level interaction when it comes to Melchezdek offices.

Traditionally in the RLDS church, calls to the priesthood originate through the presiding elder & approved by leaders at different district/stake levels as well. Not all men are called to the priesthood.

Is there specific criteria associated with this? Time of membership, activity, etc?

If the call is approved, then the individual is told about the calling & is given the opportunity to accept it.

So is the priesthood a calling in the RLDS in that individuals will be called to the priesthood, labor under that calling, and eventually be released?

The congregation then considers the calling at their business meeting. If approved, the calling is considered at the district/stake conference & the person ordained. For priesthood calls other than for high priest, patriarch, seventy & apostle...calls originate through the presiding elder of the congregation. In rare situations where the presiding elder is related to the individual being called or there is an emergency of sorts, a district/stake president can receive inspiration & begin the process, but usually there is a show of support by the presiding elder. Priesthood is seen more as a spectrum of ministry to the congregation rather than as a ladder to climb. I've known old men who have served as deacons in the RLDS church. It's very unusual for an individual to move from a 'higher' office to a 'lower' one.

This seems contradictory. If it's a spectrum of ministry to the congregation how can there be 'higher' or 'lower' offices? Is this compared to the LDS purview?

Today I came across a booklet that my ex-mother inlaw wrote entitled, 'Truth Is Eternal', by Diana R. Ludy. She passed away a couple years ago. Diana traveled to SLC in the summer of 1996 to stay a few days with distant relatives that were LDS. They shared a common ancester that joined the church in 1834. Her LDS cousins were curious about differences between the traditional RLDS & LDS churches & both sides agreed to exchange letters about eachother's churches. The editors of 'Restoration Voice' magazine (an RLDS Restorationist publication) found Diana's research helpful & her material was first published as a 6 part series in the magazine. Chapter 5 discusses Priesthood. One section examines 'Qualifications For Priesthood' between the two churches & gets into how things evolved in the LDS system over time. It's really quite an interesting read & I'd like to quote a sample:

"William G. Hartley, a research historian at Brigham Young University, reports a change of structure in the LDS Church: "Priesthood organization in Old Nauvoo differed in practice and policy from what today's Latter-day Saints see" ("Nauvoo Stake, Priesthood Quorums, and the Church's First Wards." BYU Studies 31:1:57). He explains, "Aaronic Priesthood offices were held by men, although some older boys were ordained. No priesthood office then correlated with an age group: 'Men of all ages seem to have been ordained to any of the offices in the priesthood up to and including elder to start their priesthood career' [Robert L. Marrott, "History and Functions of the Aaronic Priesthood and the Offices of Priest, Teacher, and Deacon in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1829-1844," Master thesis, BYU, 1976, p. 36]. Likewise, there was no set time period for holding any priesthood office.

"Men generally were ordained to fill specific needs, not just to receive an ordination [Marrott, p. 24]. 'Some men never held priesthood in spite of seemingly apparent abilities and commitments' [Roger Launius, "A Survey of Priesthood Ordinations, 1830-1844," Restoration Trail Forum 9:3}" (Hartley, p. 59)."

Diana then goes into how boys began being called as deacons after the Nauvoo Charter was revoked to be watchmen in the "Whistling and Whittling Brigade" since there was no longer a police force. Once in Utah, Brigham Young is quoted in Oct. 1854 JofD 2:89 saying:

"When you have got your Bishop, he needs assistance and he ordains counselors, priests, teachers and deacons, and calls them to help him; he wishes men of his own heart and hand to do this. He says 'I dare not even call a man to be a deacon, to assist me in my calling unless he has a family.' It is not the business of an ignorant young man, of no experience in family matters, to inquire into the circumstances of families and know the wants of every person. Some may want medicine and nourishment, and to be looked after, and it is not the business of boys to do this; but select a man who has got a family to be a deacon, whose wife can go with him, and assist him in administering to the needy of the ward" (Journal of Discourses2:89)."

She then goes into how changes in LDS policy occurred in July 1877 & the first signs of age being a factor in priesthood/advancment occured. Sometime later the 12, 14, 16, 18 became the norm. Anyway, I thought this was good stuff & I can't quote everything in the booklet. It's available through www.restorationbookstore.org

Thank's for the info. It's a good examination of practices. Are there any CoCer's here that can speak upon the same subject?

[NauvooSaint]

Vex,

In relation to calling to priesthood in the traditional RLDS you asked, "Is there specific criteria associated with this? Time of membership, activity, etc?"

There are some examples in church history of men being baptized/confirmed & called/ordained to priesthood (even elder) on the same day...even being sent forth as a missionary. It would seem there was an understanding of the gospel leading up to the individual's decision for baptism & they may have been worshipping with the saints. I don't know details in these rare cases. It would appear all the levels of approval weren't seen as required in such situations, however traditionally the local congregation is suppose to consider a calling in a business meeting. I believe activity would play a roll in whether a presiding elder received inspiration in calling an individual, on the other hand they could receive a sort of prophetic insight into what the future might hold regarding a man becoming more faithful in his service. Just like in the early church, some men may never be called by the Lord for service in priesthood. This may speak partly to the issue of 'many are called, but few are chosen'.

After 1985, in what became the Community of Christ, a form would be filled-out asking the presiding elder questions on how such a calling would impact the individual (including women), the congregation, etc. What gifts or abilibities may be considered as well as whether they had filed a tithing statement. I've been told filing a tithing statement is no longer a consideration in the Community of Christ. (Filing a statement is different than actually making payment of the tithing.)

You said, "So is the priesthood a calling in the RLDS in that individuals will be called to the priesthood, labor under that calling, and eventually be released?"

The calling of priesthood is considered a lifetime covenant/oath with God where a man is to magnify his priesthood, unless the Lord calls someone to another priesthood office (usually 'higher'). There appears to be cases in higher offices where (such as apostle or part of the presiding bishopric) individuals may be released to other priesthood offices & another called by revelation to the prophet to serve in the position. A prophet retains his office until death, however he sets-apart a successor based on D&C 43.

Again after 1985, a form of retirement from service for priesthood was established in the Community of Christ. In the late 1970s, W. Wallace Smith, became president emeritus & his son Wallace B. Smith became acting president. W.W. later died in 1989. The following is the Community of Christ 2005 Administrator's Handbook that discusses issues regarding priesthood: http://www.cofchrist.org/policy/administrators/ChurchAdminHand2005.pdf

You said, "This seems contradictory. If it's a spectrum of ministry to the congregation how can there be 'higher' or 'lower' offices? Is this compared to the LDS purview?"

Yes, I can understand & yes it's comparing RLDS & LDS views. Perhaps instead of viewing priesthood as a vertical ladder with a top/bottom...viewing it as horizontal left/right model. The model of the different members of the body of Christ in the New Testament can be helpful. A priest can function more widely & has more responsibility/capability vs. a teacher or deacon, yet they still share a common area & unique area of 'temporal work' or ministry in the church compared to the more 'spiritual work' of the Melchezdek ministry. The D&C does seem to refer to the 'greater' & 'lessor' priesthoods in this light. The focus is more on the needs/ministry to the church vs. personal promotion of an individual in the ranks. It's possible if one magnifys their priesthood, the Lord may call them to more responsibility seeing they multiply the 'talents' given them, but again men may faithfully serve their entire lives in the same priesthood office effectively. Men can be called to any office in the priesthood without first having served as a deacon, teacher, priest.

[Alan]

I think it is worth noting that in the LDS church, when a man progresses through the Aaronic priesthood and is then ordained an Elder, he does not cease to be a Deacon/Teacher/Priest. I understand that in the RLDS tradition the former priesthood ordination is relinquished in favour of the new one.

Thus, although I am a High Priest, I am also a Teacher, Priest etc.

[NauvooSaint]

The following is a link to forms used in the Community of Christ central mission for recommending ordination to different priesthood offices:

http://www.centralmission.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=113

[Vex]

The following is a link to forms used in the Community of Christ central mission for recommending ordination to different priesthood offices:

http://www.centralmission.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=113

I find that interesting that you can recommend individuals not of the church according to those forms. Does that happen? And if it does, what are the considerations for doing so?

[NauvooSaint]

Vex, Where did you read that an individual may not be a member to be called? I may have missed it. With the CofC now accepting 'Open Baptism' or baptisms of water of other churches, they in affect are accepting the authority of others on the same par as an Aaronic priest. Back in 1994, 'Open Communion' (sacrament) was passed in the CofC. I wrote a 4 page paper on the guidelines & reasons it wasn't appropriate at the time & knew 'Open Baptism' was on the horizon. The following is a link to their new policies.

http://www.cofchrist.org/policy/

In the past in Eugene, OR, I've seen non-members & non-priesthood allowed to do nearly everything in CofC services, with exception to doing ordinances. A non-member even served as a councilor to the pastor at one time. Prior to passage of 'Open Communion' the CofC held what were termed 'Emmaus Meals' in some places to allow anybody to partake of the bread/wine (grape juice), but these weren't officially sacrament services as no blessing was done on the emblems. In my opinion, it was an attempt to be inclusive of everyone even if they weren't baptized members & a way to get around the church's restriction on serving only church members sacrament.

[Vex]

I just looked at the Deacon form again. I misread it. It's spouses religious affiliation.