The Council of Souls

[volgadon]

Found something to good to pass up. In fact, it deserves to be posted in its entirety.

This is from Howard Schwartz's "Tree of Souls: the mythology of Judaism".

The souls of the righteous existed long before the creation of the world. God consulted

these souls in creating the universe, as it is said, They dwelt there in the king

[WalkerW]

That book is an excellent reference source. Good call and nice find!

[BookofMormonLuvr]

**It is no surprise to me that ancient Israelites adopted beliefs based on Mesopotamian myths. They often sought after mysteries, not being satisfied with the plainness Yahweh had given to them...

Jacob 4:14

But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

**Just because something is old doesn't make it correct. The Secret Society of Gadianton made a similar mistake...

3 Nephi 3:9

And behold, I am Giddianhi; and I am the governor of this the secret society of Gadianton; which society and the works thereof I know to be good; and they are of ancient date and they have been handed down unto us.

[volgadon]

That book is an excellent reference source. Good call and nice find!

Could be said of pretty much any book by Schwartz. I have another one by him, Gabriel's Palace, which is an anthology of Jewish mystical stories throughout the ages. Schwartz writes well, and his apparatii are useful and spot on. I've been going through and comparing the primary sources he used.

[jadams_4242]

Found something to good to pass up. In fact, it deserves to be posted in its entirety.

This is from Howard Schwartz's "Tree of Souls: the mythology of Judaism".

Very good stuff indeed; but still left open to wild eyed arguement; although in the future i plan on definately using this info in my own discussions with difficult non beleivers.

[volgadon]

**It is no surprise to me that ancient Israelites adopted beliefs based on Mesopotamian myths. They often sought after mysteries, not being satisfied with the plainness Yahweh had given to them...

You mean beliefs such as the accounts and traditions contained in the book of Genesis?

**Just because something is old doesn't make it correct. The Secret Society of Gadianton made a similar mistake...

Ipso facto, the Berditchever's conclusion about God asking the souls of the righteous if they want to come to earth must be correct, as it was written in the last decades of the 18th century.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

You mean beliefs such as the accounts and traditions contained in the book of Genesis?

Did I say it all had to be taken as written? I am interested in what the Brass Plates will have to say when they are brought forward.

Ipso facto, the Berditchever's conclusion about God asking the souls of the righteous if they want to come to earth must be correct, as it was written in the last decades of the 18th century.

Yeah, uh, I never said "If it is new, or more recent, it is correct." either. Nice try though. Quick thinking.

**I try my best to believe according to what the scriptures plainly say, preferring to leave the speculation and "reading between the lines" to others.**

[volgadon]

Did I say it all had to be taken as written? I am interested in what the Brass Plates will have to say when they are brought forward.

The garden of Eden is a primary example. Lehi seems to believe it too.

Yeah, uh, I never said "If it is new, or more recent, it is correct." either. Nice try though. Quick thinking.

My response was tongue-in-cheek. That being said, you appear to reject any validity to these beliefs on the criteion of their being old.

**I try my best to believe according to what the scriptures plainly say, preferring to leave the speculation and "reading between the lines" to others.**

And I came across an ancient tradition sharing a belief as taught by Joseph Smith, as well as another tradition that comes from a strict monotheistic background.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

The garden of Eden is a primary example. Lehi seems to believe it too.

My response was tongue-in-cheek. That being said, you appear to reject any validity to these beliefs on the criteion of their being old.

And I came across an ancient tradition sharing a belief as taught by Joseph Smith, as well as another tradition that comes from a strict monotheistic background.

No, I personally reject things on the basis of them not being in line with the plain reading of scripture. Until I am told otherwise, either through revelation or the promised records, I will continue to stick to the plainest possible meaning of scriptural passages, in the Book of Mormon and Bible, as my basis for belief.

[volgadon]

No, I personally reject things on the basis of them not being in line with the plain reading of scripture. Until I am told otherwise, either through revelation or the promised records, I will continue to stick to the plainest possible meaning of scriptural passages, in the Book of Mormon and Bible, as my basis for belief.

Which of course does not take into consideration that what is plain for you, a product of the late 20th and early 21st centuries AD in the western world is probably very far from the plain meaning for those to whom scripture was originally given. They were products of a different time, culture, and environment.

[volgadon]

Now, if you have no intelligent, reasoned contributions to make to this thread, please don't divert it further. Cogent criticisms are certainly welcome, knee-jerk reactions aren't.

[etana]

Great, another book to add to my ever lengthening wish list/future purchase queue.