It Gets Better

[semlogo]

Lol, you can't change your sexuality, but you can overcome it. Thinking about it is a behavior, after all, and you can put the inclinations in the back of one's head, that you can.

Obviously people can be celibate - look at the Catholic Church. But that's not the same thing as changing your inclinations.

[TAO]

A homophobic pastor who was caught hiring male prostitutes. He went into seclusion for a month or so and then suddenly announced to the world that he was "cured."

Erp... I hope he honestly feels he is over it, that I do.

[TAO]

Obviously people can be celibate - look at the Catholic Church. But that's not the same thing as changing your inclinations.

Nah, the goal isn't to change your inclinations (your weaknesses become strong, remember), the goal is to instead overcome them and keep your thoughts clean. After a while, it become instinct, and your brain does it somewhat automatically.

[David T]

Cow cookies. There are plenty of committed, celibate gay members of the Church. They just don't get the ink and the airtime allotted to the disgruntled ones.

Perhaps now would be the time.

"I'm Gay. I'm Celibate. I'm happy. And...I'm a Mormon."

[Jaybear]

You know, I think it would be cool if we could somehow find several individual who would be willing to share their experiences... and put it into video... just to show people - It can be overcome!

The practical effect of your ad campaign is to (1) reinforce their belief that they are broken, and need to be fixed; and then (2) give them false home that with effort and prayer they to can become heterosexual.

What a truly bad idea.

[SilverKnight]

Perhaps now would be the time.

"I'm Gay. I'm Celibate. I'm happy. And...I'm a Mormon."

Edited for realism:

"I'm Gay. I'm Celibate. I'm miserable. And...I'm a Mormon."

[SilverKnight]

What a truly bad idea.

So bad in fact that the Church no longer advises therapy to change sexual orientation.

[semlogo]

Erp... I hope he honestly feels he is over it, that I do.

He isn't. He just wants his ministry back. You can't "get over" your orientation. Thank heavens - I'd hate to "get over" heterosexuality.

[Jaybear]

Cow cookies. There are plenty of committed, celibate gay members of the Church. They just don't get the ink and the airtime allotted to the disgruntled ones.

Name one that has risen to the level of Bishop or higher. Or here is an easy one. Name one gay boy scout leader.

Sure you have committed, celibate gay members in the LDS Church, but do any of them lead a life worth emulating, as compared to those in the video?

[David T]

For women, there's at least the example of perpetually single (and celibate) women who have had high-up positions in General Relief Society presidencies (Sheri Dew being one of the most notable).

Have there been any single (celibate) men in General Auxiliary presidencies?

[blueadept]

Edited for realism:

"I'm Gay. I'm Celibate. I'm miserable. And...I'm a Mormon."

Being happy (or miserable) IS TRULY A CHOICE.

I'm learning this everyday due to my current marital status......I can be either miserable or happy. I'm learning to be happy and treating the situation as tough love even though I wouldn't wish this status upon anyone in honoring their marital vows.

[SilverKnight]

For women, there's at least the example of perpetually single (and celibate) women who have had high-up positions in General Relief Society presidencies (Sheri Dew being one of the most notable).

If she were to come out, she would be immediately released from her position, watched warily, and perhaps disciplined.

[David T]

If she were to come out, she would be immediately released from her position, watched warily, and perhaps disciplined.

If one were to remain celibate and keeping all of the commandments, and emphasize this? I highly doubt it. I think the very opposite would happen, and the individual would be praised and used an example of having overcome tempatation. "This person has, and is a worthy, wonderful and beneficial Church leader."

[semlogo]

For women, there's at least the example of perpetually single (and celibate) women who have had high-up positions in General Relief Society presidencies (Sheri Dew being one of the most notable).

Have there been any single (celibate) men in General Auxiliary presidencies?

I've always wondered - is Sheri Dew gay?

[TAO]

(1) reinforce their belief that they are broken, and need to be fixed; and then

*HEAD-DESK*

They AREN'T BROKEN buddy. They have a trial which would be A WHOLE TON EASIER to overcome with support.

(2) give them false home that with effort and prayer they to can become heterosexual.

I'm pretty sure that Sky, a person who has overcome his trial, would disagree with you. I've overcome some difficult trials as well, and I'm very sure effort and prayer helps.

[TAO]

He isn't. He just wants his ministry back. You can't "get over" your orientation. Thank heavens - I'd hate to "get over" heterosexuality.

Nah, I don't think you can "change" your temptation, but you can certainly "overcome" them.

[Jaybear]

For women, there's at least the example of perpetually single (and celibate) women who have had high-up positions in General Relief Society presidencies (Sheri Dew being one of the most notable).

Have there been any single (celibate) men in General Auxiliary presidencies?

If Ms. Dew was openly gay, she would be a good role model for lesbian LDS girls. But she has stated that she is single, because she has not been asked.

For LDS lesbians girls who suspect she is a lesbian, the message is clear, stay in the closet.

Ms. Dew is a role model for heterosexual women who cannot attract a husband.

[TAO]

If she were to come out, she would be immediately released from her position, watched warily, and perhaps disciplined.

But that's the entire point - she "overcame" it, on her own. She didn't overcome it to keep the position. She overcame it because she wanted to.

[Jaybear]

But that's the entire point - she "overcame" it, on her own. She didn't overcome it to keep the position. She overcame it because she wanted to.

Semlogo: I've always wondered - is Sheri Dew gay?

I don't believe its appropriate to imply or even speculate that Sherry Dew is a lesbian. As she presents herself as a heterosexual woman, who has not found the right man, we should accept her statement at face value.

[David T]

I don't believe its appropriate to imply or even speculate that Sherry Dew is a lesbian. As she presents herself as a heterosexual woman, who has not found the right man, we should accept her statement at face value.

I completely agree. I did not introduce her name to suggest sexual orientation, but as an example of a much lauded single celibate individual who has held (and does hold) positions of prominence in the Church.

[Lightbearer]

As long as we have people who deny that it is possible to repent, never. We cannot embrace the homosexual lifestyle and still be Latter-day Saints. We can have charity and love for our brothers and sisters who may have this weakness, but we cannot condone or be an enabler of this perversion. There is no "nice way" to say repent, we can do it with compassion, but we cannot offer comfort unless they repent. Repentance means to change and change is not possible except through the atonement of Christ. The way to preach the Gospel is the same for homosexuals as well as heterosexuals:

(D&C 50:17-24) "Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? And if it be by some other way it is not of God. And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? If it be some other way it is not of God. Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth? Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together. And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness. That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day."

That is the only way to do it and it be of God... we must do by the spirit of the Lord. We cannot deny the immorality of the homosexual lifestyle, we can show compassion to those who are willing to repent, but we cannot approve off or excuse sin. We cannot vilify living apostles who are trying to call people to repentance, and still expect God's approval.

[David T]

As long as we have people who deny that it is possible to repent, never. We cannot embrace the homosexual lifestyle and still be Latter-day Saints. We can have charity and love for our brothers and sisters who may have this weakness, but we cannot condone or be an enabler of this perversion. There is no "nice way" to say repent, we can do it with compassion, but we cannot offer comfort unless they repent. Repentance means to change and change is not possible except through the atonement of Christ. The way to preach the Gospel is the same for homosexuals as well as heterosexuals:

That is the only way to do it and it be of God... we must do by the spirit of the Lord. We cannot deny the immorality of the homosexual lifestyle, we can show compassion to those who are willing to repent, but we cannot approve off or excuse sin. We cannot vilify living apostles who are trying to call people to repentance, and still expect God's approval.

What are you stating needs to be repented of, exactly?

Or, in other words, when speaking to them, what would your message be?

a) You must repent of all of your homosexual feelings. Until you do so, we cannot offer you comfort.

b) You must repent of your violations of the Law of Chastity. Until you do so, we cannot offer you comfort.

c) I cannot promise you will feel differently, or stop being attracted to your same Gender. But the Lord loves you, and as you strive to obey Him, the Lord will comfort you, and bring you peace.

d) Other (please clarify)

[TAO]

What are you stating needs to be repented of, exactly?

Or, in other words, when speaking to them, what would your message be?

a) You must repent of all of your homosexual feelings. Until you do so, we cannot offer you comfort.

b) You must repent of your violations of the Law of Chastity. Until you do so, we cannot offer you comfort.

c) I cannot promise you will feel differently, or stop being attracted to your same Gender. But the Lord loves you, and as you strive to obey Him, the Lord will comfort you, and bring you peace.

d) Other (please clarify)

With any difficult temptation, you are likely to actually think about it at least once. Repenting brings comfort, peace, and understanding, that it does.

So it's not up to determine what repentance is needed. It's between them and the Lord. He will answer.

[Chris]

Actually acting on the inclination has always been viewed as sinful. And when you say "they" remember this was a general psychological philosophy, not a philosophy of the church, and it was individuals who wanted to live a normal family life who were willing to got thorough therapy to change. And yes I do believe some people did change and it is possible to do so, but most won't be able to in this life.

It's funny that many LDS use the word of wisdom as evidence of inspiration because the science of it came later. Where was the inspiration in regard to electroshock therapy? In fact, BYU continued the therapy after the APA recommend to discontinue the practice in 1973.

Articles (and other anecdotal evidence) like this: https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/IssuesInReligionAndPsychotherapy/article/viewPDFInterstitial/4/3 which was published in 1975 (https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/IssuesInReligionAndPsychotherapy/search/titles?searchPage=4) suggest that BYU continued the "therapy" after 1973.

[JDave]

The only way I can see it going would be perhaps that the Preach My Gospel discussion concerning the Plan of Salvation would, in the future, have expanded optional 'tracks' for destinational goals/vocations, which can be emphasized when it is clear there is no desire for the individual being taught to have an Eternal Heterosexual Family.

It would go like this:

Is investigator Heterosexual? Then, Lesson A ("Exaltation and Forever Families")

Homosexual, or no familiar desires? Then, Lesson B ("Salvation in the Celestial Kingdom").

nack,

I can understand that some may, in the end, choose to not accept marriage and remain satisfied with salvation in the Celestial Kingdom. But I don't see how we would teach that the best that some can ever expect is short of exaltation. Your description here indicates that those with homosexual tendencies should be taught to expect less than exaltation. I am not following that. Unless you are claiming that sexual orientation tendencies are unchanged before and after this mortal existence. If that is the case then we just haven't received the revelatory memo yet but there would be, as you stated, different 'tracks' even if within the same destination. However, this would seem to be a marked change from what has been taught on this subject.

Some mortal problems are to be resolved after this life. If one cannot walk in this life, they will be able to in the next. If one cannot function socially in this life, they will be able to in the next. And if one cannot enter into marriage in this life, they will be able to in the next. Obviously by marriage I am using that of a family as God defines, man and woman. But the teaching that I have always seen is that we deal with the problems we have in this life, assured that the 'normal' things that others so easily enjoy will be available to us as well if we are faithful.