Land of Desolation and Desolation of Nehors

[Scottie]

I have a couple of questions about the BoM, but I want to make sure I have my references straight first...

In Alma 16:11, it states 11 Nevertheless, after many days their dead bodies were heaped up upon the face of the earth, and they were covered with a shallow covering. And now so great was the scent thereof that the people did not go in to possess the land of Ammonihah for many years. And it was called Desolation of Nehors; for they were of the profession of Nehor, who were slain; and their lands remained desolate.

Are the Desolation of Nehors and the Land of Desolation which is references throughout the BoM the same place?

If so, I have a followup question for those of you who subscribe to the LGT. How big would a battle have to be in order for the slaughtered dead to be too numerous to bury and cause such a smell for so many years, and such a great distance, that it rendered the area uninhabitable?

[poulsenll]

I have a couple of questions about the BoM, but I want to make sure I have my references straight first...

In Alma 16:11, it states 11 Nevertheless, after many days their dead bodies were heaped up upon the face of the earth, and they were covered with a shallow covering. And now so great was the scent thereof that the people did not go in to possess the land of Ammonihah for many years. And it was called Desolation of Nehors; for they were of the profession of Nehor, who were slain; and their lands remained desolate.

Are the Desolation of Nehors and the Land of Desolation which is references throughout the BoM the same place?

If so, I have a followup question for those of you who subscribe to the LGT. How big would a battle have to be in order for the slaughtered dead to be too numerous to bury and cause such a smell for so many years, and such a great distance, that it rendered the area uninhabitable?

Geographically speaking the answer is no. The Land of Desolation was to the north of the land of Bountiful. Ammonihah was north of the city of Zarahemla but still within the general area of the Land of Zarahemla and south of the land of Bountiful.

From the description in the BofM, the entire population of Ammonihah, less those taken as prisoners, were killed and left unburied. In a tropical climate it does not take long for bodies to decay and start to stink. The number of dead could have been as few as 10,000 but may have been much greater. Although the stink may have dissipated after a few months, the memory would have lasted a lot longer.

Larry P

[Scottie]

I'm trying to remember my BoM.

I seem to recall that the Land of Desolation became desolate in a similar fashon as the Desolation of Nehors. Wasn't there a large scale battle that destroyed the land? Or I am just remembering the Desolation of Nehors here?

[volgadon]

I think that for many years people couldn't bring themselves to live there because the smell lingered on in memory. I can still recall some very nasty smells, which have me very wary of touching certain materials.

Anyway, good topic.

[nosmelone]

I'm trying to remember my BoM.

I seem to recall that the Land of Desolation became desolate in a similar fashon as the Desolation of Nehors. Wasn't there a large scale battle that destroyed the land? Or I am just remembering the Desolation of Nehors here?

According to Alma 22:30 In speaking of the Land of Bountiful it says, "And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that itcame into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose bones we have spoke, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing."

now, in vs 30 when it is said "of whose bones we have spoke, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla" it is referring to Mosiah 8 where kind Lemhi is sharing the experience of when he sent 43 men to go and find the Land of Zarahemla.

7 And the king said unto him: Being grieved for the afflictions of my people, I caused that forty and three of my people should take a journey into the wilderness, that thereby they might find the land of Zarahemla, that we might appeal unto our brethren to deliver us out of bondage. 8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel. 9 And for a testimony that the things that they had said are true they have brought twenty-four plates which are filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold. 10 And behold, also, they have brought breastplates, which are large, and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound. 11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust; and there is no one in the land that is able to interpret the language or the engravings that are on the plates.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those the remains of the Jaredites? If I remember right these are the remains of the Jaredites upon their last battle which would have also ended near the hill Ramah or Cumorah (which is a whole new can of worms). ( Ether 15:11.)

[Scottie]

According to Alma 22:30 In speaking of the Land of Bountiful it says, "And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that itcame into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose bones we have spoke, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing."

now, in vs 30 when it is said "of whose bones we have spoke, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla" it is referring to Mosiah 8 where kind Lemhi is sharing the experience of when he sent 43 men to go and find the Land of Zarahemla.

7 And the king said unto him: Being grieved for the afflictions of my people, I caused that forty and three of my people should take a journey into the wilderness, that thereby they might find the land of Zarahemla, that we might appeal unto our brethren to deliver us out of bondage. 8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel. 9 And for a testimony that the things that they had said are true they have brought twenty-four plates which are filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold. 10 And behold, also, they have brought breastplates, which are large, and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound. 11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust; and there is no one in the land that is able to interpret the language or the engravings that are on the plates.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those the remains of the Jaredites? If I remember right these are the remains of the Jaredites upon their last battle which would have also ended near the hill Ramah or Cumorah (which is a whole new can of worms). ( Ether 15:11.)

Thanks!

I had recalled that a major battle had rendered the land uninhabitable, and it didn't make sense how the LGT fit with this. If it were the Jaradites that had the major battle, that makes more sense and doesn't appear to pose a problem for the LGT.

[poulsenll]

According to Alma 22:30 In speaking of the Land of Bountiful it says, "And it bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, it being so far northward that itcame into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed, of whose bones we have spoke, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla, it being the place of their first landing."

now, in vs 30 when it is said "of whose bones we have spoke, which was discovered by the people of Zarahemla" it is referring to Mosiah 8 where kind Lemhi is sharing the experience of when he sent 43 men to go and find the Land of Zarahemla.

7 And the king said unto him: Being grieved for the afflictions of my people, I caused that forty and three of my people should take a journey into the wilderness, that thereby they might find the land of Zarahemla, that we might appeal unto our brethren to deliver us out of bondage. 8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel. 9 And for a testimony that the things that they had said are true they have brought twenty-four plates which are filled with engravings, and they are of pure gold. 10 And behold, also, they have brought breastplates, which are large, and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound. 11 And again, they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust; and there is no one in the land that is able to interpret the language or the engravings that are on the plates.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those the remains of the Jaredites? If I remember right these are the remains of the Jaredites upon their last battle which would have also ended near the hill Ramah or Cumorah (which is a whole new can of worms). ( Ether 15:11.)

The record found in the 24 plates is indeed the record of the Jaredites. However the assumption by the Nephites that the bones, armor and other artifacts were Jaredite in origin, that is those from the people whose history was recorded in the plates, is an assumption and does not fit well with the story of Coriantumr recorded in Ether and in the Book of Omni.

Omni

20 And it came to pass in the days of Mosiah, there was a large stone brought unto him with engravings on it; and he did interpret the engravings by the gift and power of God.

21 And they gave an account of one aCoriantumr, and the slain of his people. And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons.

The peple of Zarahemla came from the north (the land of Mulek) whereas the Jaredites were located in the land northward of the Narrow neck of land. Ether was commanded to follow Coriantumr to witness his death and burial by the people who would inherit his lands and kingdom. The stone containing Coriantumr's history was not carved by the Jaredites but by the people that took him in and eventually buried him. The Mulekites thought this stone was of some importance or why did they cary it with them into the Land of Zarhemla. It was not carried by Coriantumr from the location of the last battle of the Jaredites.

Anthropology tells us of a group of people called the Mixe-Zoque who lived on the coast near the mouth of the Grijalva river who split up, the Mixe going north and the Zoque south following the Grijalva river and settling in the Grijalva river valley of Chiapas.

All of this suggests to me that the Zarahemlites (Mulekites)were the group that had a falling out with each other and some of them went north and inherited the Jaredite lands, fufilling Ether's prophecy and the other group went up to the land of Zarahemla carrying the stone with Coriantumr's history recorded on it. Ether, after seeing the fulfillment of the prophecy hid the plates in a locality where Limhi's search party would eventually find them. This location was not necesarrily located anywheres near the last battles of the Jaredites.

Larry P