Ron Beron Posted April 28, 2009 Author Posted April 28, 2009 There are various reasons to believe that these elohim are not mortal human judges, but are in fact gods. Our own Maklelan describes some of those reasons quite nicely here.Evangelical scholar Michael Heiser describes it here also. One reason is that as a result of the unrighteousness of the "gods" the whole Earth is in turmoil. Such would not be the case for simply human Israelite judges.Just for support to this is a different way to look at it. Here and only here in the OT is the phrase adat el or 'assembly El'. The NET Bible suggests that it has different meanings..(1) Some understand â??Elâ? to refer to God himself. In this case he is pictured presiding over his own heavenly assembly. (2) Others take אֵל as a superlative here (â??God stands in the great assemblyâ?), as in Pss 36:6 and 80:10. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly. (See Isa 14:13, where Elâ??s assembly is called â??the stars of El.â?) In the Ugaritic myths the phrase â??dt â??ilm refers to the â??assembly of the gods,â? who congregate in King Kirtuâ??s house, where Baal asks El to bless Kirtuâ??s house (see G. R. Driver, Canaanite Myths and Legends, 91). If the Canaanite divine assembly is referred to here in Ps 82:1, then the psalm must be understood as a bold polemic against Canaanite religion. Israelâ??s God invades Elâ??s assembly, denounces its gods as failing to uphold justice, and announces their coming demise. For an interpretation of the psalm along these lines, see W. VanGemeren, â??Psalms,â? EBC 5:533-36.In verse one, "82:1 God stands in the assembly of El;in the midst of the gods he renders judgment." While some consider this an assembly of judges others see it as having a different meaning.The present translation assumes that the Hebrew term אֱלֹהִים (â??elohim, â??godsâ?) here refers to the pagan gods who supposedly comprise Elâ??s assembly according to Canaanite religion. Those who reject the polemical view of the psalm prefer to see the referent as human judges or rulers (אֱלֹהִים sometimes refers to officials appointed by God, see Exod 21:6; 22:8-9; Ps 45:6) or as angelic beings (אֱלֹהִים sometimes refers to angelic beings, see Gen 3:5; Ps 8:5).The thing that confuses me is that they are not like God in that they can taste death. In Mesopotamian and by assimilation, Ugaritic religion gods can and have died. They are not immortal. Only YHWH is immortal.
volgadon Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Thedaydreamer, I do have a background in the Hebrew language, history and culture. Those are the language, history and culture of myself and my forefathers. Did you bother reading that bit from Bamidbar Rabba which Maklelan mentioned and I posted? It is directly above your post. In it Ps 82:6 and the concept of being gods and children of the Most High are connected quite clearly to a tradition about the Lord promising the Children of Israel eternal life even as He has and that they shall be even as He is, yet since they rejected it, He decrees that they shall die as mortals.In Psalms 82 the Lord is furious with the leaders of his people who are gods, yet have perverted justice. He revokes their status because of their wickedness and makes them mere mortals, princes in flesh and blood only. LDS teachings fit into this Psalm quite nicely and no surprise.
e=mc2 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Just for support to this is a different way to look at it. Here and only here in the OT is the phrase adat el or 'assembly El'. The NET Bible suggests that it has different meanings..(1) Some understand â??Elâ? to refer to God himself. In this case he is pictured presiding over his own heavenly assembly. (2) Others take אֵל as a superlative here (â??God stands in the great assemblyâ?), as in Pss 36:6 and 80:10. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly. (See Isa 14:13, where Elâ??s assembly is called â??the stars of El.â?) In the Ugaritic myths the phrase â??dt â??ilm refers to the â??assembly of the gods,â? who congregate in King Kirtuâ??s house, where Baal asks El to bless Kirtuâ??s house (see G. R. Driver, Canaanite Myths and Legends, 91). If the Canaanite divine assembly is referred to here in Ps 82:1, then the psalm must be understood as a bold polemic against Canaanite religion. Israelâ??s God invades Elâ??s assembly, denounces its gods as failing to uphold justice, and announces their coming demise. For an interpretation of the psalm along these lines, see W. VanGemeren, â??Psalms,â? EBC 5:533-36.In verse one, "82:1 God stands in the assembly of El;in the midst of the gods he renders judgment." While some consider this an assembly of judges others see it as having a different meaning.The present translation assumes that the Hebrew term אֱלֹהִים (â??elohim, â??godsâ?) here refers to the pagan gods who supposedly comprise Elâ??s assembly according to Canaanite religion. Those who reject the polemical view of the psalm prefer to see the referent as human judges or rulers (אֱלֹהִים sometimes refers to officials appointed by God, see Exod 21:6; 22:8-9; Ps 45:6) or as angelic beings (אֱלֹהִים sometimes refers to angelic beings, see Gen 3:5; Ps 8:5).The thing that confuses me is that they are not like God in that they can taste death. In Mesopotamian and by assimilation, Ugaritic religion gods can and have died. They are not immortal. Only YHWH is immortal. At that time anyway. After all Yahweh eventually came to earth as a mortal and certainly *died*............. food fer thought eh?
Ron Beron Posted April 28, 2009 Author Posted April 28, 2009 At that time anyway. After all Yahweh eventually came to earth as a mortal and certainly *died*............. food fer thought eh?Food for thought?! That's a full course!Thedaydreamer, I do have a background in the Hebrew language, history and culture. Those are the language, history and culture of myself and my forefathers. Did you bother reading that bit from Bamidbar Rabba which Maklelan mentioned and I posted? It is directly above your post. In it Ps 82:6 and the concept of being gods and children of the Most High are connected quite clearly to a tradition about the Lord promising the Children of Israel eternal life even as He has and that they shall be even as He is, yet since they rejected it, He decrees that they shall die as mortals. In Psalms 82 the Lord is furious with the leaders of his people who are gods, yet have perverted justice. He revokes their status because of their wickedness and makes them mere mortals, princes in flesh and blood only. LDS teachings fit into this Psalm quite nicely and no surprise.The reading you posted was a real eye opener. Thanks.
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