Sealings

[Notquitewetyet]

Perhaps God's omniscience takes care of the conundrum.

Big UP!

Lamanite

Then if Adam and Eve were sealed, Cain can be redeemed?

[Lamanite]

Then if Adam and Eve were sealed, Cain can be redeemed?

The way I'm reading Orson's quote, I would assume yes, if Cain so desired it. I understand this creates a bit of a problem with the Sons of perdition thing. I'd like to see quotes on the sons of perdition doctrine. It's not something I know too much about.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[wenglund]

You're thoughts may also provide insight into Joseph's desire to be linked to many families through non Romantic sealings, no? Big UP!Lamanite

I think so. The impression I got from my limited reading on the subject was that Joseph preferred the relational link to some of his close friends and their families, to be more than just friends. He wanted them to be his family.

If true, this suggest a far more noble motive for polygamy than what many critics may assume, and to me it also fits more amicably with the spirit, if not the letter, of section 132.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Lamanite]

I think so. The impression I got from my limited reading on the subject was that Joseph preferred the relational link to some of his close friends and their families, to be more than just friends. He wanted them to be his family.

If true, this suggest a far more noble motive for polygamy than what many critics may assume, and to me it also fits more amicably with the spirit, if not the letter, of section 132.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Well said! It just tastes good doesn't it!

Big UP!

Lamanite

[wenglund]

Then if Adam and Eve were sealed, Cain can be redeemed?

I, personally, would draw a distinction here between the exception and the rule. Son's of Perdition may well be the exception.

However, even were redemption open to Sons of Perdition because of the sealings of the parents, perdition itself would negate it. To be a Son of Perdition is to have wilfully and knowingly rejected redemption. It would go against their chosen nature to accept redemption were it open to them.

At least that is my limited understanding.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Well said! It just tastes good doesn't it!

Yes...ever so sweet my friend!!

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Areabird]

I never realized that sealings were so complicated a concept. I thought it was just about ensuring you are together in the afterlife--assuming you all end up in the same kingdom. If all of you deep thinkers aren't sure what the sealing is about, then does that mean the rest of us took part in an ordinance that we didn't understand at all? Should we have ordinances that no one understands? What is the point of doing that?

I never realized that sealings were so complicated a concept. I thought it was just about ensuring you are together in the afterlife--assuming you all end up in the same kingdom. If all of you deep thinkers aren't sure what the sealing is about, then does that mean the rest of us took part in an ordinance that we didn't understand at all? Should we have ordinances that no one understands? What is the point of doing that?

I did not mean to be rude using the term 'deep thinkers'. I was actually paying you all a compliment.

[Ahman]

Then if Adam and Eve were sealed, Cain can be redeemed?

All sealing are subject to ratification by the Holy Ghost. A person who creates such a sin as rejecting the Holy Ghost, or sinning against Him, will certainly not be ratified and will be removed from the chain.

As we all learned from the film "Cool Hand Luke"- "Some men, you just cain't reach"

[Lamanite]

I never realized that sealings were so complicated a concept. I thought it was just about ensuring you are together in the afterlife--assuming you all end up in the same kingdom. If all of you deep thinkers aren't sure what the sealing is about, then does that mean the rest of us took part in an ordinance that we didn't understand at all? Should we have ordinances that no one understands? What is the point of doing that?I did not mean to be rude using the term 'deep thinkers'. I was actually paying you all a compliment.

You know, I just had a very special insight into baptism last week and I'm 34. It's not that we don't understand the ordinance(s), it's just that Gods tutoring and benevolence allows for Him to continue to send further light and knowledge as we diligently seek Him; and upon the conditions that we are true and faithful to the current light and knowledge we possess. It's as if the ordinance and its associated symbolism unrolls like a massive scroll. To put it another way;we make ourselves available for God to write upon the tablets of our hearts, and such writing becomes indelibly seared into our very being.

Plus, I think Wade make us "reach for it". Kind of like what DOM said to Nibley.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[howller]

Ancient cylinder seals or ring seals were usually strung through with a cord and worn around the wrist or around the neck (which would probably be the meaning behind the idiom of having a seal upon one's heart). Persons of authority would use the seals to secure documents or to stamp property with a token of their ownership. Those authorized to act for a higher authority might possess the ring seal or cylinder seal of a king or other authoritative figure.

As such, possession of a seal would be very much analogous to carrying identification (I.D.). That was, in fact, how Tamar identified Judah as the progenitor of her unborn child. The seal could be a token of personal identification or of the authority to act in the name of a king or other authority.

A scroll sealed with a blob of wax or clay bearing the impression of the seal of an authority functioned both as a means to bind the document and secure it from prying eyes, but also to identify the authority by which the document was marked.

Similarly, property such as a clay pot or cup might be stamped with an identifying seal indicating ownership. Hence, the cup bearing a stamp containing the Hebrew inscription la-melek, would indicate that the cup belonged to the royal household of the king.

These basic functions of ancient (and modern) seal usage, when used in a gospel context then might have the following connotations:

1. To secure, bind and join in a permanent fashion.

2. To indicate that a contract or covenant is duly authorized by deity (having the identifying token placed upon it).

3. To indicate that a contract or covenant is recognized as binding and in force.

4. As a sign of ownership, relationship and approval. If God's seal is in our forehead it indicates that we are his.

In the case of the Seal of the Holy Spirit of Promise, I think all of the above connotations my equally apply. I have always considered the presence of the Spirit in one's personal life or one's marriage to be an outward sign, token or "seal of approval" that the baptism/marriage/priesthood covenant is in effect and valid.

[sean0scott]

I don't see any reason why a couple who both end up in the Terrestrial Kingdom would be any less "together forever" than their CK counterparts. Just without the reproducing, which I assume they would not desire to anyway.

Don't tell President Smith; but not only do I think people in the Telestial Kingdom will be with their spouses/families, but they will reproduce as well.

[wenglund]

I never realized that sealings were so complicated a concept. I thought it was just about ensuring you are together in the afterlife--assuming you all end up in the same kingdom. If all of you deep thinkers aren't sure what the sealing is about, then does that mean the rest of us took part in an ordinance that we didn't understand at all? Should we have ordinances that no one understands? What is the point of doing that?I did not mean to be rude using the term 'deep thinkers'. I was actually paying you all a compliment.

Part of the beauty of the gospel is its combined simplicity and complexity. It's like the human body: even a child can grasp the simple and general notions of what it looks like and how it works, while also the so-called deep scientific thinkers from a variety fields may explore the complexities and details of the same. There are enriching layers of understanding for everyone--line upon line, precept upon precept.

If a biologist has gone about discovering the inner-workings of the human digestive system, does that mean that a regular person like myself doesn't understand the concept of eating or the value of ingesting food? I certainly don't think so. To me, striving for further light and knowledge doesn't entail negating the knowledge one has already attained, but rather a continued building upon an existing epistemic foundation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

As we all learned from the film "Cool Hand Luke"- "Some men, you just cain't reach"

"Aaaaa...what we have here is a faiiiiluuurre to commmuuuunnicate."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Ancient cylinder seals or ring seals were usually strung through with a cord and worn around the wrist or around the neck (which would probably be the meaning behind the idiom of having a seal upon one's heart). Persons of authority would use the seals to secure documents or to stamp property with a token of their ownership. Those authorized to act for a higher authority might possess the ring seal or cylinder seal of a king or other authoritative figure.

As such, possession of a seal would be very much analogous to carrying identification (I.D.). That was, in fact, how Tamar identified Judah as the progenitor of her unborn child. The seal could be a token of personal identification or of the authority to act in the name of a king or other authority.

A scroll sealed with a blob of wax or clay bearing the impression of the seal of an authority functioned both as a means to bind the document and secure it from prying eyes, but also to identify the authority by which the document was marked.

Similarly, property such as a clay pot or cup might be stamped with an identifying seal indicating ownership. Hence, the cup bearing a stamp containing the Hebrew inscription la-melek, would indicate that the cup belonged to the royal household of the king.

These basic functions of ancient (and modern) seal usage, when used in a gospel context then might have the following connotations:

1. To secure, bind and join in a permanent fashion.

2. To indicate that a contract or covenant is duly authorized by deity (having the identifying token placed upon it).

3. To indicate that a contract or covenant is recognized as binding and in force.

4. As a sign of ownership, relationship and approval. If God's seal is in our forehead it indicates that we are his.

In the case of the Seal of the Holy Spirit of Promise, I think all of the above connotations my equally apply. I have always considered the presence of the Spirit in one's personal life or one's marriage to be an outward sign, token or "seal of approval" that the baptism/marriage/priesthood covenant is in effect and valid.

Yet another profound and tasty layer of meaning pealed back to enrich my understanding of sealings.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[emeliza]

I have sealing envy. I can't get sealed to anyone in my family. Someday.....