"Or in other words"

[Joseph Antley]

In the Standard Works, the phrase "or in other words" occurs countless times in the BofM and the D&C, and also once in the explanation of facsimile 2. I have no references handy, but I believe it occurs in Joseph's personal writings as well.

So, my question: did the BofM writers actually write a Hebrew/reformed Egyptian version of the phrase, or is it a Joseph Smithism inserted into the text?

[Joseph Antley]

bump........

[sethpayne]

In the Standard Works, the phrase "or in other words" occurs countless times in the BofM and the D&C, and also once in the explanation of facsimile 2. I have no references handy, but I believe it occurs in Joseph's personal writings as well.

So, my question: did the BofM writers actually write a Hebrew/reformed Egyptian version of the phrase, or is it a Joseph Smithism inserted into the text?

It seems odd, that Moroni -- using gold plates and using reformed egyptian to conserve space would waste that space by saying the same thing twice; or in other words -- be redundant.

[coolrok7]

In the Standard Works, the phrase "or in other words" occurs countless times in the BofM and the D&C, and also once in the explanation of facsimile 2. I have no references handy, but I believe it occurs in Joseph's personal writings as well.

So, my question: did the BofM writers actually write a Hebrew/reformed Egyptian version of the phrase, or is it a Joseph Smithism inserted into the text?

It's because they were Jospeh's words (except for when he was plagiarizing), not anyone elses. In reality his mother gives a description of Joseph's storytelling ability before the BofM was supposedly translated (Joseph was already rehearsing the BofM story, way before 1827, when the supposed translation was first started):

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them. (HISTORY OF JOSEPH SMITH BY HIS MOTHER, LUCY SMITH, p.88)

When you read the following, note that all he was doing was reading the words of light on the seer (peep) stone in a hat with his face placed in the hat blocking out any external light (which is never how one would see it presented in the Ensign magazine, or at least the pictures I've seen):

Oliver B. Huntington recorded in his journal that in 1881 Joseph F. Smith, who became the sixth President of the Mormon Church, taught that the Lord gave Joseph Smith the exact English wording and spelling that he should use in the Book of Mormon:

Saturday Feb. 25, 1881, I went to Provo to a quarterly Stake Conference. Heard Joseph F. Smith describe the manner of translating the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith the Prophet and Seer, which was as follows as near as I can recollect the substance of his description. Joseph did not render the writing on the gold plates into the English language in his own style of language as many people believe, but every word and every letter was given to him by the gift and power of God. So it is the work of God and not of Joseph Smith, and it was done in this way. . . .The Lord caused each word spelled as it is in the Book to appear on the stones in short sentences or words, and when Joseph had uttered the sentence or word before him and the scribe had written it properly, that sentence would disappear and another appear. And if there was a word wrongly written or even a letter incorrect the writing on the stones would remain there. Then Joseph would require the scribe to spell the reading of the last spoken and thus find the mistake and when recorded the sentence would disappear as usual. (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, p.168 of typed copy at Utah State Historical Society)

Concerning the translating of the Book of Mormon, George Reynolds, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy, 1890-1909, made this statement:

But at the outset it must be recollected that the translation was accomplished by no common method, by no ordinary means. It was done by divine aid. There were no delays over obscure passages, no difficulties over the choice of words, no stoppages from the ignorance of the translator; no time was wasted in investigation or argument over the value, intent or meaning of certain characters, and there were no references to authorities. These difficulties to human work were removed. All was as simple as when a clerk writes from dictation. The translation of the characters appeared on the Urim and the Thummim, sentence by sentence, and as soon as one was correctly transcribed the next would appear. (Myth of the Manuscript Found, 1883 Edition, p.71)

George Reynolds quotes the following from a letter written to the Deseret News by Edward Stevenson:

Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the prophet and written by Martin, and when finished he would say, â??Written,â? and if correctly written, that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used. (Myth of the Manuscript Found, 1883 Edition, p.91)

The Mormon apostle Orson Hyde claimed that the words appeared on the Urim and Thummim. He wrote a pamphlet in the German language entitled, â??A Cry From the Wilderness, A Voice From the Dust of the Earth.â? This pamphlet was translated into the English language by Justus Ernst of the Church Historianâ??s office, and is reproduced in a thesis by Paul R. Cheesman. In this account the following appears:

These were used in the following manner: These two stones, called Urim and Thummim, in diameter the size of an English crown (coin) only a little thicker, were placed where all light was excluded. The persons using these offered their prayers to the Lord, and the answer became visible, written in letters of light on the Urim and Thummim, but disappeared again soon after. Thus: â??The light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.â?? In this manner the sacred records were translated into English. (An Analysis Of The Accounts Relating Joseph Smithâ??s Early Visions, A Thesis Submitted to the Faculty of the Department of Graduate Studies in Religious Instruction, Brigham Young University, May, 1965, by Paul R. Cheesman, p.167)

Then note all the changes that had to be made to the BofM (the first printing as contrasted with the present day BofM) )after it was "translated" by reading the words of light that would not disappear until the words were written down correctly.

[auteur55]

So, my question: did the BofM writers actually write a Hebrew/reformed Egyptian version of the phrase, or is it a Joseph Smithism inserted into the text?

Let me ask you something. If your Moroni chiseling on plates and you can't go back and correct or clarify something you've written what do you do? It may have saved space saying "in other words" and then clarifying your point. The phrase "in other words" may not be an exact translation of what was written but possible the equivalent. "In other words" made sense to Joseph Smith so why wouldn't he translate it as such?

It's because they were Jospeh's words (except for when he was plagiarizing), not anyone elses. In reality his mother gives a description of Joseph's storytelling ability before the BofM was supposedly translated (Joseph was already rehearsing the BofM story, way before 1827, when the supposed translation was first started):

you should have been around here long enough to know this isn't true. Joseph started telling the story of the Nephites to his family "after" meeting Moroni. Joseph had a pretty good idea about the Nephite civilization before he started translating. Critics love to throw this stale accusation out as if they're church historians when it's very easy to see they know nothing about Joseph's "stories" or their context.

[Mike Reed]

In reality his mother gives a description of Joseph's storytelling ability before the BofM was supposedly translated (Joseph was already rehearsing the BofM story, way before 1827, when the supposed translation was first started

Before 1827? But was it before 1823, when Smith was first (reportedly) visited by Angel Moroni?

Says John Taylor: â??Why, there was a young man [Joseph Smith] in Ontario county, New York, to whom the angel of God [Moroni] appeared and gave an account of the whole. These majestic [Pre-Columbian] ruins bespeak the existence of a mighty people.â? John Taylor (1857), JD 5:241.

I don't know that we can be certain either way.

[kamenraider]

In the Standard Works, the phrase "or in other words" occurs countless times in the BofM and the D&C, and also once in the explanation of facsimile 2. I have no references handy, but I believe it occurs in Joseph's personal writings as well.

So, my question: did the BofM writers actually write a Hebrew/reformed Egyptian version of the phrase, or is it a Joseph Smithism inserted into the text?

FYI, it occurs seven times in the book Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, twice in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and does not occur in The Words of Joseph Smith.