Genesis 1:1 And Margaret Barker

[urroner]

I was reading in Margaret Barker's â??Temple Themes in Christian Worshipâ? and she mentioned that "beginning" is also another word for the Holy of Holies." I have read that the Heavens or all non-material things were created on the First Day and that the Holy of Holies represented the First Day also. Am I reading too much into joining the two together in Genesis 1:1.

I'm sorry that I don't have the page where she mentioned the equating of "beginning" with the Holy of Holies.

[kryoung1983]

Well we know that the temple represents the universe on a miniature scale. This is taught symbolically in many cultures. The sons as horus as the four quarters of the earth, etc, and I know its taught some where in the zohar. Don't have the reference right now...it seems that the temple not only represents the universe, but our relationship with the universe and with God in a cosmological sense. To me it can not be inmaterial, since the universe and our relationship to it is a very physical one. Hence our relationship to God is a very physical one. To me it just seems to just seem to underly the theme of unification, the presence of God and renewal of the physical creation? I don't really understand all this since to me the holy of holies represents the power of God, the center where all things come together. Could you explain a little bit more what she meant from 'the beginning' and 'the holy of holies' I really liked how she addressed the idea of renewal in the context of the jubilee. That was a really cool concept on her part.

[baddonkey]

I was reading in Margaret Barker's â??Temple Themes in Christian Worshipâ? and she mentioned that "beginning" is also another word for the Holy of Holies." I have read that the Heavens or all non-material things were created on the First Day and that the Holy of Holies represented the First Day also. Am I reading too much into joining the two together in Genesis 1:1.

I'm sorry that I don't have the page where she mentioned the equating of "beginning" with the Holy of Holies.

Is this based on that kaballa stuff, like those weird people who wear red strings and buy supposedly blessed drinking water for five bucks a bottle?

[lukas_s]

Is this based on that kaballa stuff, like those weird people who wear red strings and buy supposedly blessed drinking water for five bucks a bottle?

Real Kabbalah has nothing to do with that stuff.

[lukas_s]

Well we know that the temple represents the universe on a miniature scale. This is taught symbolically in many cultures. The sons as horus as the four quarters of the earth, etc, and I know its taught some where in the zohar. Don't have the reference right now...it seems that the temple not only represents the universe, but our relationship with the universe and with God in a cosmological sense. To me it can not be inmaterial, since the universe and our relationship to it is a very physical one. Hence our relationship to God is a very physical one. To me it just seems to just seem to underly the theme of unification, the presence of God and renewal of the physical creation? I don't really understand all this since to me the holy of holies represents the power of God, the center where all things come together. Could you explain a little bit more what she meant from 'the beginning' and 'the holy of holies' I really liked how she addressed the idea of renewal in the context of the jubilee. That was a really cool concept on her part.

Right. The Zohar teaches that the earthly Temple is directly related to the heavenly Temple, and actually depends on it. I believe it terms both as "sanctuary" and "upper sanctuary" if I'm not mistaken. In fact, it's in the Zohar that we learn that there are 2 heavenly Temples.

[kryoung1983]

Right. The Zohar teaches that the earthly Temple is directly related to the heavenly Temple, and actually depends on it. I believe it terms both as "sanctuary" and "upper sanctuary" if I'm not mistaken. In fact, it's in the Zohar that we learn that there are 2 heavenly Temples.

Actually I just read the area he was talking about last night. I will have to look more into it. I think Margaret barker is a mixed bag. Its amazing how much she gets right but I think she jumps to too many assumptions of what something may or may not mean...I do like her stuff though, and so far in her book on the great high priest I think I liked the chapter on the secret traditions, and the jubilee the most. I just started this chapter on the holy of holies so I don't really have much of an opinion righ now.

[kryoung1983]

Actually I just read the area he was talking about last night. I will have to look more into it. I think Margaret barker is a mixed bag. Its amazing how much she gets right but I think she jumps to too many assumptions of what something may or may not mean...I do like her stuff though, and so far in her book on the great high priest I think I liked the chapter on the secret traditions, and the jubilee the most. I just started this chapter on the holy of holies so I don't really have much of an opinion righ now.

This is from the great high priest pg 162 "Dividing the kingdom is a reference to teh very first process of creation: dividing the original unity of day on, the kingdom, into many things of the visible creation. Division and separation is the theme throughout Genesis 1." and speaking of Enoch I believe she says, "He saw the the judgment and punishment of sinners, and then he saw the secrets of the weathers, and the oath which bound the sun and moon in their orbits. Then he saw the lightnings and the stars of heaven (1 Enoch 43.4) Perhaps this means the same as that enigmatic line in Job 38:8 'do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule on the earth?' There is also something similair in Jubilees, that on day one all the spirits of his creatures in heaven and on earth were created (Jubilee 2.2.), implying a heavenly archtype for the creatures on the earth. The reverse of this process is implied in Daniel. 'Those who trun many to righteousness shall shine like stars fore ever and ever' (Dan 12.3) That is, the holy ones will return to heaven as stars"

Later in the book a segment from the gospel of Philip is high lighted which says, At the present time we have the manifest things of the creation....the mysteries of truth are revealed through in type and image. The bridal chamber remains hiddden. It is the holy in the holy. The veil at first concelaed how God controlled the creation" The correlation of the temple, with creation, renewal, unification, exaltation is amazing. I just loved that first quote.

[MormonMason]

Right. The Zohar teaches that the earthly Temple is directly related to the heavenly Temple, and actually depends on it. I believe it terms both as "sanctuary" and "upper sanctuary" if I'm not mistaken. In fact, it's in the Zohar that we learn that there are 2 heavenly Temples.

The concept of "As above, so below" actually is older than the Zohar. The same can be said regarding the heavenly and earthly temples, concepts of which predated the New Testament and can be seen elsewhere. There is evidence of similar teaching in the Dead Sea Scrolls, if I recall correctly. Of course, I have seen a number of ideas in the Zohar also among the fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls, so somehow there was a cross-current of thought that preserved the idea over the years amongst the traditions of the Jews.

There is scant but increasingly shown to be reliable evidence that an Essene communicated mystical tradition to a Jew, apparently in violation of his covenant in the community, the name of the Essene being Manahem--or something like that. I'd have to look over several sources to find the information again and verify it.

[kryoung1983]

I would love to see your evidence of this. I am not too familiar with the zohar, and I know Raphael Patai brings some things out in his book the hebrew goddess, with some of the conceptual elements of the zohar. You know the mother, father, daughter, son, thing is really interesting. This is something that is really cool, and I think it harks back to a more anthropomorphic understanding of diety which has become 'mystified' I guess. I just got Patais work so I don't have much of an opinion right now on that, but its all very interesting.

[MormonMason]

I would love to see your evidence of this. I am not too familiar with the zohar, and I know Raphael Patai brings some things out in his book the hebrew goddess, with some of the conceptual elements of the zohar. You know the mother, father, daughter, son, thing is really interesting. This is something that is really cool, and I think it harks back to a more anthropomorphic understanding of diety which has become 'mystified' I guess. I just got Patais work so I don't have much of an opinion right now on that, but its all very interesting.

Specifically, evidence of what? The "As above, so below" concept? The link between mystical tradition and the Essenes? The Essene who communicated the information to another? Concepts in the Dead Sea Scrolls that can be seen in the Zohar? All of the above?

Let me know. The sources are wide and varied but I can pass a few on to you as a starting point.

Patai is an interesting source of information. It is a good read. Thanks for reminding me that I actually need to go out and buy it rather than borrow it from a library. I had forgotten to get around to doing that.

[kryoung1983]

Specifically, evidence of what? The "As above, so below" concept? The link between mystical tradition and the Essenes? The Essene who communicated the information to another? Concepts in the Dead Sea Scrolls that can be seen in the Zohar? All of the above?

Let me know. The sources are wide and varied but I can pass a few on to you as a starting point.

Patai is an interesting source of information. It is a good read. Thanks for reminding me that I actually need to go out and buy it rather than borrow it from a library. I had forgotten to get around to doing that.

All of the above would be good, but I would be really interested in seeing the link between the essenes and the zohar. I meant the evidence that it was passed on from the essenes.

[MormonMason]

All of the above would be good, but I would be really interested in seeing the link between the essenes and the zohar. I meant the evidence that it was passed on from the essenes.

For starters, see Aryeh Kaplan, Sefer Yetzirah, The Book of Creation In Theory and Practice, Revised Edition (Boston: Red Wheel/Weiser, 1997), xvi-xvii, 345. This reference connects the Sefer Yetzirah to Essenism, which work itself was used known to the final author of the Zohar, Moses de Leon. Page 345 is the references page for the previously listed pages, which sources in Jewish literature listed there you also should read for discussion of this alleged connection.

As to the Dead Sea Scrolls, note that certain subjects are discussed in the Zohar such as physiognomy and so forth, as well as complex angelologies in the Zohar. Fragments of such texts have been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Samples of these kinds of texts can be seen in the 2005 revised edition of Wise, Abegg and Cook's The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Translation. I do not have the page references handy at the moment but this should get you started.

You should also consult references to the Essenes in Josephus and in Philo and compare the ideas there with some of those related topics and speculations which can be found in both the Dead Sea Scrolls and in the Zohar in various places.

Hope this helps for moment. Perhaps you may not see the connections in the way I have but at least this should give you something interesting to look into for the moment.

[kryoung1983]

Thanks.