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Seer Stone And The U&t


Mudcat

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Its my understanding the JS translated part of the BOM with a "Seer Stone" as opposed to the U&T. Does anyone know if this was the same stone he used in his "money digging" days? If he did use a "Seer Stone" for part of the tranlation...what was the purpose of the U&T? I mean, why would he be given something to use for the purpose of translating the plates and use something contrary to his instructions?

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Have you ever translated a record in an unknown language by divine instrumentation given you by an angel of God. I don't think we are even close to understanding what type of mental and spiritual training that would take place to prepare someone for such a task. Joseph Smith didn't learn it over night.

My own guess: He started with the Urim and Thummin and as his knowledge grew and he became closer to the spirit of truth and revelation he graduated to the seer stone.

Not enough about the translation process has been revealed to give any definitive answer to your questions.

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Its my understanding the JS translated part of the BOM with a "Seer Stone" as opposed to the U&T. Does anyone know if this was the same stone he used in his "money digging" days? If he did use a "Seer Stone" for part of the tranlation...what was the purpose of the U&T? I mean, why would he be given something to use for the purpose of translating the plates and use something contrary to his instructions?

It has always been my understanding that the U.T was only for speacial purposes and not only translatiing alone, i think it was used for "understanding" and some type of authority. the seer stone was strictly for translating. When we read the bible the U.T was used for some type of authority and regognition.

:P

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But what was the Urim and Thummin? Were they two stones with Hebrew letters scrawled on them attached to a breastplate or were they some type of goggles worn over the eyes? Was it a complex multiprocessing device that was able to scan and translate?

What we have heard of the seer stones seems so much more clear and yet the seeming mechanism by which they would be able to do anything but be a paper weight seems unclear. Was there another stone with a dim light emitting diode array that needed a low light environment that a face in a hat could provide?

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But what was the Urim and Thummin? Were they two stones with Hebrew letters scrawled on them attached to a breastplate or were they some type of goggles worn over the eyes? Was it a complex multiprocessing device that was able to scan and translate?

What we have heard of the seer stones seems so much more clear and yet the seeming mechanism by which they would be able to do anything but be a paper weight seems unclear. Was there another stone with a dim light emitting diode array that needed a low light environment that a face in a hat could provide?

They were stones or something assuch affixed to the center of a breastplate, and i would have to do some investgatory work to refresh my knowledge? :P

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Have you ever translated a record in an unknown language by divine instrumentation given you by an angel of God. I don't think we are even close to understanding what type of mental and spiritual training that would take place to prepare someone for such a task. Joseph Smith didn't learn it over night.

My own guess: He started with the Urim and Thummin and as his knowledge grew and he became closer to the spirit of truth and revelation he graduated to the seer stone.

Not enough about the translation process has been revealed to give any definitive answer to your questions.

This gets the timeline wrong though. You would think he would start off with the seer stone which he had used often enough to know how or if it worked. Then he would graduate up to the U&T.

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Its my understanding the JS translated part of the BOM with a "Seer Stone" as opposed to the U&T. Does anyone know if this was the same stone he used in his "money digging" days? If he did use a "Seer Stone" for part of the tranlation...what was the purpose of the U&T? I mean, why would he be given something to use for the purpose of translating the plates and use something contrary to his instructions?

He probably no more "translated" the BofM by means of a 'seer stone' than Paul conveyed the Holy Ghost by means of a sacred hankie (Acts 19:11-12). I think that he believed the stones helped him in this purpose, but in reality I believe he did it all by spontaneous revelation without benefit of any artifact.

As to the U and T...there seems to a paucity of info on the items, but this much we can be sure that they were used primarily as a means of simple divination. The description given in the OT is that they were most probably two differing colored stones that were secured into the ephod or breastpiece of the high priest. It would be difficult for me to see how JS would've used these.

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