How Many People Will Go To Heaven?

[John Williams]

I always have thought this 144,000 to be tied into the twelve tribes of israel 12 times 12 = 144, So when

figuring in all the differant matmatical possibilities and possible combinations, then actually understanding

what God meant, this is a very perplexing issue!

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'm betting a lot of us go to hell anyway. At least I will.

[huckelberry]

Bsix, I have been reading your posts for what may be seven eight years now. Long time no? I am not able to get inside your experience completely but it seems clear to me that you have had serously negative encounters with portions of traditinal christianity. It would be dumb of me to claim your experience did not happen and does not reflect real elements in that big river.

I could be honest and say I think you were taught traditional Chrisianity by predatory reprobates. I do not blame you for chooseing LDS instead.

I have seen Calvinist posters from time to time that convinced me they were emessaries of the devil. It can happen. On the other hand I would recomment giving further consideration to Paul Hadik. He is genuinely unquestionable a conservative fundamentalist. I may agree with him on a lot but I may well worry him a bit. Any case Paul is genuine Christian and I think it fair to take his comments on the question seriously. I know of few who have been unflinching in looking at the reasons to be narrow and see a small percentage of saved. Yet read what he said.

To your question, percentage of the saved in the end. I dont know. I think that was said already. If I am to be honest with myself, in my heart what do I believe my answer is eighty four percent. Now that might be a figure a bit high. But then again it might be distincly low. I do believe that the danger of remaining ouside of salvation is real. Especially real for oneself.

I think your misunderstanding of the tulip are subtle but important. It should stand out that if you look at the tulip it makes no prediction for how many are saved. It could be two, Jesus and the other one he came to save. It might mean Jesus and every last human that lived. It could mean any of the percentages in between.

A little more to the point, in Calvinism people are not only unable to have faith, without grace they have no desire for God or faith. Grace does not force people to believe or have faith it opens their heart to allow them to desire God in love. Faith naturally forms in that loving enviroment. It is not something forced upon degenerates. The fact that you keep seeing the image of loveless grace suggests somebody taught grace to you who had no interest in it.

If anybody is still reading, I finally arrive at Bsixs comment which caught my interest. He said, If believers shared how few are able to accept the gift of salvation the exclusiveness would be exposed and show almost all go to hell.

Most everybody talking traditional Christianity realize that nobody is able to accept the gift. If it is a work we do we all come up short and go to hell. I think there are a number of ways people sneek personal accomplishment into salvation and create a false works salvation. Having the one true doctrine or rejecting mormonism are excellent examples.I They should take Paul Taurus advise and cut themselves instead.

Bsix If you really want talk baptism or people outside of Christian culture I am happy to but my post is too long already.

[Bsix]

Paul:

Thank you for your thoughtful response. You said:

To your question, percentage of the saved in the end. I dont know. I think that was said already. If I am to be honest with myself, in my heart what do I believe my answer is eighty four percent. Now that might be a figure a bit high. But then again it might be distincly low. I do believe that the danger of remaining ouside of salvation is real. Especially real for oneself.

Six: Wow...that makes me think. That is the most generous concept of who gets into heaven that I have ever heard or imagined that I'd hear from a traditional Christian. I am going to go off and think about that one.

Regards,

Six

[paulhadik]

Bsix:

the thoughtful response should be credited to Huckleberry. I will however take credit for the "groan, smack forehead with palm" responses.

I will try this once again because, with all due honesty, out here in Micronesia, there are long gaps of time where I have nothing better to do....

your idea that God's sovereign election means the majority of humanity goes to hell is baseless.

children go to hell....you base this on the fact you have heard calvinist preachers (plural) teach this. I will give you the benefit of the doubt though I doubt that doubt I am benefiting...this is not reformed teaching, nor is it scriptural teaching. Salvation is all God's mercy. I have a baby daughter who died, and I have perfect peace that God's mercy has saved her. By the way, if your logic is going to based on "I heard someone say this" can I start attributing LDS doctrine to anything I can quote from Brigham Young???

All people who have lived through time etc etc and haven't heard. Again you underestimate God. Rahab believed with no previous understanding. the wise men believed with no previous understanding (as compared to the priests who told Herod where the wise men needed to go, then didn't go themselves...)

Balaam, melchizedek...there is no limit to what God can do. now interesting to me is that LDS want to usher everyone into eternity and confine Outer Darkness to a very few. What about all those who lived during the time of Christ, saw His miracles, heard His teachings and outright rejected him? What about all the Israelites who left Egypt and cursed God, worshipped the calf and wandered to their death after seeing God's presence daily. What about the millions of Jews who through the OT continually rejected God's teachings and turned to idols??

Accepting the right doctrine...But there are many of us on this board who while polite about it, reject out of hand the LDS teachings, are here debating not just to defend our beliefs but to convince LDS that they are wrong and should leave...we are "fighting" against God's restoration...why do we still get in?

The doctrine of hell and eternal separation aren't comfortable doctrines, but I won't apologize for the fact that I think they are scriptural. The LDS make as a selling point the "Everyone gets in somewhere" based more on emotion than any biblical back-up. however on closer study I find even more problems with its cotton candy vagueness than you find with my idea of holy judgement.

I humbly beg your forgiveness for once again failing to answer your original question with a percentage and state again, that I just plain don't know. (tell you what though, I and every calvinist I know, are witnessing as if it is 100%)

[rhinomelon]

Good posts, Paul and huckleberry. Bsix, I apologize for coming on too harshly. I hope that you can see, after reading paul and huckleberry's posts, why I believed that your interpretation of Calvinist thinking was inflammatory. "Force" is not the issue here. Those who go to heaven will be there of their own choice, as will all those in hell. As C.S. Lewis once wrote, hell is the single greatest monument to God's respect of free will.

And I can't give a percentage, nor would I want to. As Paul said, we act as though 100% were a possibility, even though we know that it will not work out that way in the end. The exact numbers only God knows, and I trust in His perfect mercy and justice.

And I've never heard a preacher say that babies who die go to hell. I'm sure some have said that, but I don't believe it to be a widely held opinion among mainstream Christians.

Take care, everyone