The Two Main Problems With "mormon" Archeology

[Olavarria]

1) The books lack of specifictity about who these people are.

I have alawas heard the accusation that nothing "nephite" has been found in the ruins. That begs the questian, what is a nephite? What traits or background would a person need in order to be called a nephite? What traits would someone have in order to disqualify him as such? Once you define what a nephite is, then you would ask, "what would these people leave behind, and how would we recognize it?"

1)anyone who is not a lamanite. Jacob 1:13

2)political affiliation, loyal to the Nephi dynasty,kinda like Saudi, as in ibn Saud. Jacob 1:14

3)believer in the religion taught by Nephi and his descendants, kinda like a Sunni vs Shia. 4 Nephi 1:37

4) a blood descendant of Nephi. 3 Nephi 5:10

Given these definitions FROM THE BOM itself, what traces should we expect to find in the ruins or DNA? How would we recognize them? With two of these definitions, even Donny Osmond would be considered a Nephite!

2) Lack of surviving text from the relevant periods

"Our knowledge of ancient Maya thought must represent only a tiny fraction of the whole picture, for of the thousands of books in which the full extent of their learning and ritual was recorded, only four have survived to modern times (as though all that posterity knew of ourselves were to be based upon three prayer books and Pilgrim's Progress)." (Michael D. Coe, The Maya, London: Thames and Hudson, 4th ed., 1987, p. 161.)

In the OW, we know when,why and who changed Jerusalem into Al Quds, Constantineople to Istanbul and Gaul into France. The problem with the NW is that the ruins from BoM times are currently nameless, as are the people who once lived there.

[myleague]

The Earth is to be baptized by water and fire and will one day obtain perfection, I wonder if the earth itself is a continuous metaphor our lives and our progression. The OW is more temporal, while the NW is more spiritual. It doesn't take faith to believe that Israel is real; I think everyone has a perfect knowledge of such. On our human path to enlightenment, weâ??ve been given a greater freedom in choosing to serve the Lord. It seems a natural progression from physical and temporal to faith and spiritual. The later requiring more self discipline, greater love and faith.

[Olavarria]

bump

[e=mc2]

My most recent podcast is just on this subject, the #11 in the Simplifying Nibley series...... Come and enjoy listening.

http://backyardprofessor.typepad.com/the_backyard_professor/

Best,

Kerry

[jadams_4242]

1) The books lack of specifictity about who these people are.

I have alawas heard the accusation that nothing "nephite" has been found in the ruins. That begs the questian, what is a nephite? What traits or background would a person need in order to be called a nephite? What traits would someone have in order to disqualify him as such? Once you define what a nephite is, then you would ask, "what would these people leave behind, and how would we recognize it?"

1)anyone who is not a lamanite. Jacob 1:13

2)political affiliation, loyal to the Nephi dynasty,kinda like Saudi, as in ibn Saud. Jacob 1:14

3)believer in the religion taught by Nephi and his descendants, kinda like a Sunni vs Shia. 4 Nephi 1:37

4) a blood descendant of Nephi. 3 Nephi 5:10

Given these definitions FROM THE BOM itself, what traces should we expect to find in the ruins or DNA? How would we recognize them? With two of these definitions, even Donny Osmond would be considered a Nephite!

2) Lack of surviving text from the relevant periods

"Our knowledge of ancient Maya thought must represent only a tiny fraction of the whole picture, for of the thousands of books in which the full extent of their learning and ritual was recorded, only four have survived to modern times (as though all that posterity knew of ourselves were to be based upon three prayer books and Pilgrim's Progress)." (Michael D. Coe, The Maya, London: Thames and Hudson, 4th ed., 1987, p. 161.)

In the OW, we know when,why and who changed Jerusalem into Al Quds, Constantineople to Istanbul and Gaul into France. The problem with the NW is that the ruins from BoM times are nameless, as are the people who lived there.

how can we prove anything from other scripture than the b.o.m?

all the archeoligal evidence or lack of, about nephites, or laminites.gos right out the window when figuring d,n.a.....

dna pretty much proves everything as far as im concerned.......some question the d,n.a evidence,

{as to testifing of the b.o.m.} that it is not concrete proof.............

well it is much more possible proof than anything that might refute the b.o.m.........

but as far as nephites laminites e.t,c..........how can d,n.a verify their time or placement in excistence?

[e=mc2]

Yes....... this, unfortunately is the essence of the enterprise of archaeology. Ever changig and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth......heh..... what a nifty scripture for archaeology!

The shift, in say....... the last couple decades of Israeli archaeology information and conclusions about much of what the Old Testament says happened in ancient times in Palestine and neighboring geographical locations has been astonishingly different than what the Albright school of archaeology of the 1940's- 60's was. Now, it appears as if almost *nothing* as described in the Bible happened the way we read it there. And no one was actually there when the Bible says they were, etc. It's not a pretty picture to crow about either, but the contention nowadays is rather bleak. Depending on who you read, of course........