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Prophet correctly interprets the hypocephalus


Olavarria

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I intend to study facsimilie #2 and post # by #. It will take a long time, perhaps it will be drawn out for several months, im kinda busy.

Before I start I want to state my view of the facsimilies.

1) The BoA facsimilies dont date to the time of Abraham, he did nt draw them. They date to the Greco-Roman period of Egyptian history.

2) The ancient readers of the BoM were not using the facsimilies in their original, funerary context. This should be obvious but it isnt to some. The facsimilies are being used alongside the BoA, even though they(fac.1 and 3) were originally part of the BoD.

For an example of the semetic adaption/adoption of "pagan" egyptian motifs see:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...entry1208122356

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT PLURAL MARRIAGE, HERE OR IN THE HERE AFTER. No Sex jokes please. Some of us post on this board because we are interested in mormonism. If you are here because you want to justify your own disaffection with that faith, thru crude and thoughtless humor, Do not post. If you hate facts, do not post. I fyou think I a trying to convert you thru facts, donot post. This thred is about figure 7 and only figure 7.

1c0f7dd0.gif

Fig. 7. Represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood; as, also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham, in the form of a dove.

Th Egyptian context

This is Min:

Min was a fertility god who was believed to bestow sexual powers to all men. He has a flail and is ichtyphallic. When the Pharaoh begot his heir, he was also identified with Min. Min was a predynastic god. In the earliest times he was a sky-god called the "Chief of Heaven". Until the Middle Kingdom he was identified with Horus the Elder and he was called the son of Re or Shu. http://www.egyptianmyths.net/min.htm

A hymn to Min read:

... Min, Bull of the Great Phallus,

...

You are the Great Male, the owner of all females.

The Bull who is unites with those of the sweet love, of beautiful face and of painted eyes,

Victorious sovereign among the Gods who inspires fear in the Ennead*.

...

The goddesses are glad, seeing your perfection.

-- Hymn to Min : http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/min.htm

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ennead

Would an ancient believer in the BoA identify God with Min?

If he views God as mormons do:

"This matter was a little changed in the case of the Savior of the world, the Son of the living God. The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. On this account infidels have called the Savior a *******. This is merely a human opinion upon one of the inscrutable doings of the Almighty. That very babe that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our heavenly Father."

"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessing offered unto them, and they refused to accept them."

DELEGATE HOOPER-BENEFICIAL EFFECTS OF POLYGAMY-

FINAL REDEMPTION OF CAIN. Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG, in the Bowery,

in G.S.L. City, August 19th, 1866.

REPORTED BY G. D. WATT.

11:266

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I keep hearing this line of thought, and I keep thinking:

Pictorial compositions of the Book of Abraham are not nessicarilly unique, and may have been borrowed, as with many other image in the Book of Abraham, used by ordinary Egyptians with minor alterations as illustrations to their own autobiographies. Though I think the image of Min is signifigant (as it is an Egyptian image of the God of Israel), however the the details of his image, the presence of his phallus, doesn't to me nessicarily reflect Abraham putting it there to represent something, any more than it could be there because its the Egyptians' representation of Min and Abraham is simply copying the characteristics of the Min image, phallus and all.

Note: I'm also an amature. Any expert here is free to walk all over this.

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I keep hearing this line of thought, and I keep thinking:

Pictorial compositions of the Book of Abraham are not nessicarilly unique, and may have been borrowed, as with many other image in the Book of Abraham, used by ordinary Egyptians with minor alterations as illustrations to their own autobiographies. Though I think the image of Min is signifigant (as it is an Egyptian image of the God of Israel), however the the details of his image, the presence of his phallus, doesn't to me nessicarily reflect Abraham putting it there to represent something, any more than it could be there because its the Egyptians' representation of Min and Abraham is simply copying the characteristics of the Min image, phallus and all.

Note: I'm also an amature. Any expert here is free to walk all over this.

Personally, I dont believe Abraham the man, himself had anything to do with the creation of the hypocephalus. I think someone else put the two together,probably in the 100's ad, just like the borrowing of BoD chapter 125 for the Testament of Abraham. I just think Min is a fitting symbol for Heavenly Father in his capacity as a literal heavenly father, victorious sovereign among the Gods who inspires fear in the Council in Heaven. Jesus is to a lamb, what Father is to Min. We don't worship lambs or Min.

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Personally, I dont believe Abraham the man, himself had anything to do with the creation of the hypocephalus. I think someone else put the two together,probably in the 100's ad, just like the borrowing of BoD chapter 125 for the Testament of Abraham. I just think Min is a fitting symbol for Heavenly Father in his capacity as a literal heavenly father, victorious sovereign among the Gods who inspires fear in the Council in Heaven. Jesus is to a lamb, what Father is to Min. We don't worship lambs or Min.

I've been reading from the Pundits. Indeed, the figure is identified as an image of God (an "Egyptian" god), this Person is God sitting upon his throne, confirming that the prophet Joseph Smith must have known Egyptian iconography. But even more signifigant than that, it seems Min is literally Jehovah.

The ancient Egyptians identified the god Min as a manifestation of Amen-Ra. Amen is identified with the great Unknown God who made the universe. Amen-Ra (also Amon, Amun) means "Hidden One", "What Cannot Be Seen,' the "Unknown".

A papyrus dedicated to Amen called him:

*Chief of the gods

*Father of the gods

*Creator of men and women

*Maker of animals

*Lord of things which exist

*Lord of Terror

*Lord of Eternity

*Maker of everlastingness

*Lord of the gods

*Min-Amen

The title "Lord of Terror" is significant, because Moses writes of Jehovah:

"a Mighty God and terrible" (Deut. 7:21)

"a great God, a Mighty, and a terrible God" (Deut. 10:17)

Nehemiah calls Jehovah "the terrible God" (Neh. 9:32)

David writes "For the LORD most high is terrible." (Psalms 47:2)

These seem to be almost word-for-word descriptions of Min-Amen (Amen-Ra).

When Paul goes to Athen and preaches to the men of Athens on Mars Hill, he notices a shrine to "The Unknown God" is a reference to Min-Amen; since one of the names of Amen was "Unknown". It is unlikely that the Athenians would dedicate a shrine to a Being that was litterally "Unknown". Rather.the Athenians had much commerse with the Egyptian-Greek city of Alexandria, and would have been familiar with all the Egyptian gods and their titles.

Noticing the shrine to the Unknown God, Paul addressed them, "Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars Hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with the inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him I declare unto you." (Acts 17:22-3)

The Book of Revelations, Jesus (Jehovah) identified His Name as "Amen":

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God." (Rev. 3:19)

So is Abraham simply using the image of Min just because Min is so 'simular' to Jehovah, or is Min really Jehovah?

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So is Abraham simply using the image of Min just because Min is so 'simular' to Jehovah, or is Min really Jehovah?

No, Min is Min. Jehovah is Jehovah. I am not advocating an egypto-judaic syncretism. As for associations between Amen-Re and Jehovah, I will tackle that when I get to fig 1.

What are the Implications of Christ being the "beginning of the creation of God?"

Thats an issue for fig 1.

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My cousin had shown me Mins characteristics. I guess I never noticed he was clearly male. We were looking over Min Is Not God a tract from Alpha & Omega Ministries. Min is not God if you mean our God. Min is a God to them. They just did not have one God. Calling Min God is a guess on Joseph Smith's part hardly innerant. If his ideas had inspiration in them you have to look beyond the speculation to see it.

It's not hard to guess the figure might be an Egyptian way of presenting God. God does sit on a throne.

Was Min around in Moses time? I winder if he considered Min God for a time.

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I have seen an old Book of Abraham with a version of Min like you mentioned. I guess I never really looked at Min much. I didn't care about such things until I got into Anti-Mormon criticisms of the book.

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It makes sense that God would be a God of fertitlity. His work and glory involve children. Everything He does is about His children. He is the author of life as we know it.

He created us to become fathers and mothers. Probably why satan's plan is to destroy this factor in every way possible.

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On this Min figure, I have the largest, most comprehensive, extensive, scholarly, discovering commentary ever produced on Min, on the planet (I'm not bragging, simply stating the fact, honest) with my 20 podcasts on my blog. Just so ya know, a mere 15 hours worth, (each one is only about 40 minutes, perfect for while you are commuting, or when working in the yard, or something, or for just relaxing and learning) and utilizing hundreds of sources...... again.......quite literally. You can find them, and all the other podcasts here:

http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backy...asts/index.html

Best,

Kerry

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On this Min figure, I have the largest, most comprehensive, extensive, scholarly, discovering commentary ever produced on Min, on the planet (I'm not bragging, simply stating the fact, honest) with my 20 podcasts on my blog. Just so ya know, a mere 15 hours worth, (each one is only about 40 minutes, perfect for while you are commuting, or when working in the yard, or something, or for just relaxing and learning) and utilizing hundreds of sources...... again.......quite literally. You can find them, and all the other podcasts here:

http://www.backyardprofessor.com/the_backy...asts/index.html

Best,

Kerry

just heard some of it today, cool stuff. :P

I am Her Amun, son of Pahor, son of Paanki, son of Herihor from Hermonthis and I approve Kerry's message.

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