Boaz and Jachin

[Ron Beron]

I have been wondering for a long time as to the meanings of the two pillars that faced the front of Solomon's temple. They obviously didn't serve any structural component and from what I gather they are highly symbolic, but of what? Since the temple was designed and built by Phoenician craftsmen could it not have incorporated some ideas that were represented by cultures more unique to the Sumerian Lavant and less to Israelite religion.

Some thoughts

1. Could they have been representative of the asherah (not the goddess, but her representation)? Standing blocks of wood have accompanied folk religion in Israel for years preceding the building of the temple, why not here as well?

2. They were skirted at the top of the pillar with garlands of pomegranate leaves which were representative of the asherah as well.

3. Other temples such as Hazor, 'Ain Dara, and Tell Ta

[poulsenll]

A quick search of the internet suggests that Hiram included the pillars in the design because this was a common feature of non Israelite designs of the day. The pillars on the non Israelite temples represented aspects of the cultures gods. However, the names for the pillars of Solomon's Temple were Hebrew and stood for "He will establish" and "In him is strength". The names for the pillars may have been chosen by the Israelites to represent important aspects of Jehovahs nature and purpose. These two aspects of Jehovah call to mind the statement in Moses 1:39 where Moses is reminded of God's glory and purpose.

Larry P

[rameumptom]

Pillars were used as a location for covenants/oaths. Jacob set up a pillar where he had laid his head and saw God (Genesis 28:18-22).

In chapter 31, Laban and Jacob build a pillar to make an oath between the two of them of peace.

Even God led the children of Israel as a pillar of fire - in order to show them that he was continually before them as a covenant.

In chapter 33 of Exodus, the cloudy pillar of God enters the newly made Tabernacle, in order to show that God's presence was there.

In 2 Samuel 18, Absalom rears a pillar to his own name, because he has no son to carry on his name. The pillar, in this instance, is to remind future generations of David's son.

In 2 Kings 23, we get an interesting thought on why the temple pillars are there. Athaliah tries to put her son up as the new king, but the temple priest places Jehoiada in place at the temple:

And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard and of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD.

14 And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner was, and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.

15 But Jehoiada the priest commanded the captains of the hundreds, the officers of the host, and said unto them, Have her forth without the ranges: and him that followeth her kill with the sword. For the priest had said, Let her not be slain in the house of the LORD.

16 And they laid hands on her; and she went by the way by the which the horses came into the king's house: and there was she slain.

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[Ron Beron]

An interesting view of pillars comes from the BAR May/June 2001 article: Sacred Stones in the Desert by Uzi Avner. He shows that many ancient Israelite sacred locations in the Sinai and Negev deserts have two small stones set up side by side. These masseboth are usually encircled by rocks, suggesting holy sites. The earliest are dated to 11th millennium BC, and they continue through the Biblical period. The Bible states two types of masseboth: gods, and ancestral spirits. One Biblical example of a masseboth is Jacob's stone at Beth-El.

Aren't they interesting! I was thinking along these lines as well. It is interesting to note that the massebot, asherah, and other cultic artifacts are found adjacent to the cultic high places during the 1st temple period. The idea of a massebot are found throughout the world, Stonehenge, Sun pillars in Japan and China, Menhirs in Celtic sites, etc. And, finally, as you mention Jacobs stone at Beth-el.

[grego]

So what about those two towers? They're getting some good publicity nowadays for a certain group claiming their relationships to the Illuminati, 911, the Tarot, the New World Order, etc.

[rameumptom]

As to tying the two pillars to Asherah, I think there may be a link. Margaret Barker states that the First Temple had Tree of Life symbolism within it. Jeremiah talks about the queen of heaven/goddess worship of his day (Jeremiah 7, 44). There is a strong possibility that the children of Israel "enhanced" their religion by beginning to worship other real deity, rather than solely worship Yahweh/El.

The consort/wife of God IS an ancient theme. If the two pillars are to suggest Father and Mother, or the Trees of Life and Knowledge of Good and Evil, we can only guess at, since there is no strong evidence for it.

However, the ancient masseboth almost always include two pillars. It seems there are two beings being worshipped in this instance. We just do not know whether we should consider it El and Yahweh, or El and consort.

[rameumptom]

So what about those two towers? They're getting some good publicity nowadays for a certain group claiming their relationships to the Illuminati, 911, the Tarot, the New World Order, etc.

Exactly which two towers are you referring to? When I hear "two towers" I tend to think either the world trade center towers (of which there were actually two large ones, plus several smaller buildings), or JRR Tolkien's second book of the Lord of the Rings trilogy (in which both towers are also brought down).

Or are you thinking of something else?

In this thread we are discussing pillars, not towers. I'm not sure how towers tie in. However, ancient towers also included mounds and pyramids. King Noah's high tower was more likely a pyramid, and not the cute London tower one tends to see in an Arnold Friberg painting.

Pyramids, mounds and towers helped the individual or community to reach heaven. The most famous tower was the Tower of Babel, traditionally built by Nimrod and reworked by Nebuchadnezzar. According to Joseph Smith, Nimrod's goal was to build a stairway to heaven, and kick out the current inhabitants. According to one journal, Joseph taught that the city of Enoch was still present in the sky, and Nimrod was attempting to reach it. Satan and his followers always seek to obtain heaven in their own way. There are close ties to Nimrod and the Pharaoh of the Book of Abraham, also. Tradition has it that Adam's garment (which Ham stole from Noah) was passed down to Nimrod and this is what made him the great hunter he was. From this garment, he became a pretender to the priesthood and the royal/celestial throne; just as we see with Abraham's Pharaoh. Pharaoh becomes the son of Re/Amun in the same way as Abraham became the son of El through receiving his appointment from his fathers: the priesthood.

Today we use towers/pyramids/mountains in LDS religion. we call them temples. They are symbolic stepping stones to the heavens. They are where God and man meet in the middle between heaven and earth. Many ancient mounds had buildings on top of them, while temples were often built on the top of a hill or mountain (just look at the Acropolis in Athens).

Anyway, back to towers - towers and masseboth/pillars are two different animals. However, they can be related. Temples/sacred places as towers to heaven are often used to house masseboth/pillars. One must have sacred space in order to establish a covenant with God, somewhere in the middle between heaven and earth.

[Ron Beron]

Margaret Barker states that the First Temple had Tree of Life symbolism within it. 

Do you have a reference to her book? Looks like a good line.

[Uncle Dale]

Pillars were used....

You need to look into the Enoch lore of the masonic Royal Arch rites.

Why did Enoch form two pillars? What were they made of? What did they withstand?

What was contained within the pillars? What was written on Enoch's golden plate?

And, most importantly -- what is formed when the arch joins the two pillars,

and what is the keystone of that unifying arch?

Determine all of that, and then work backwards into the biblical texts and into

Jewish tradition. You will eventually arrive at the answer you are seeking.

Uncle Dale

[grego]

There are close ties to Nimrod and the Pharaoh of the Book of Abraham, also. Tradition has it that Adam's garment (which Ham stole from Noah) was passed down to Nimrod and this is what made him the great hunter he was.

I still maintain this is mere myth. A wicked man having a righteous thing will gain from it? So if a wicked person buys garments on ebay, they can use them to their hunting advantage, and bag the biggest one? "What's your secret, Ross?" "Well, I buyed me one of them Mormon garments on ebay, and I put 'em on, and the darn deer just stand there and I says, "Come here, fella", and he come running right to me and stands so close he could smell my beer belch, and I just shot the darn thing." This is one you could test yourself--see if all the deer come running to you or stare in awe--I doubt it will work. If anyone can provide evidence by personal experience, I'm all for listening.

Now, about those two towers and what's going on right now with them...

(some of these sites are anti-PC):

There was a movie on how they related to 911--the arch and the two towers, the NWO, etc.--I'll try to find it...

http://www.911prophecy.com/Chapters/WTC%20...%20Origami1.htm (scroll down to the $5 bills; later, use the left side index to find some more)

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/the_builder_1919_october.htm (detailed info on the pillars, symbolism, construction, etc.)

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/alchemy/Alchemy_Key.pdfhttp://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ew04c.htm

http://www.plim.org/DestructionWTC.html

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/apoc2.htm

[Ron Beron]

There are close ties to Nimrod and the Pharaoh of the Book of Abraham, also. Tradition has it that Adam's garment (which Ham stole from Noah) was passed down to Nimrod and this is what made him the great hunter he was.

I still maintain this is mere myth. A wicked man having a righteous thing will gain from it? So if a wicked person buys garments on ebay, they can use them to their hunting advantage, and bag the biggest one? "What's your secret, Ross?" "Well, I buyed me one of them Mormon garments on ebay, and I put 'em on, and the darn deer just stand there and I says, "Come here, fella", and he come running right to me and stands so close he could smell my beer belch, and I just shot the darn thing." This is one you could test yourself--see if all the deer come running to you or stare in awe--I doubt it will work. If anyone can provide evidence by personal experience, I'm all for listening.

Now, about those two towers and what's going on right now with them...

(some of these sites are anti-PC):

There was a movie on how they related to 911--the arch and the two towers, the NWO, etc.--I'll try to find it...

http://www.911prophecy.com/Chapters/WTC%20...%20Origami1.htm (scroll down to the $5 bills; later, use the left side index to find some more)

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/the_builder_1919_october.htm (detailed info on the pillars, symbolism, construction, etc.)

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/alchemy/Alchemy_Key.pdfhttp://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ew04c.htm

http://www.plim.org/DestructionWTC.html

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/apoc2.htm

Okay...I think we are moving into a totally different world here.

[Connolly]

A wicked man having a righteous thing will gain from it?

Nevertheless a wicked man may attribute all sorts of fortune to posessing the righteous thing. It is not beyond reason that a wicked man will be superstitious. He knew that it was a thing that righteous men believed. So it is not illogical that he was a great hunter and attributed it to having Adam's coat of skins.

[Dunamis]

I've merged the same topic from the Pundit folder where it wasn't getting much action. This is a good example of why it is usually better to post topics here where they are going to get a better response.

[rameumptom]

Margaret Barker states that the First Temple had Tree of Life symbolism within it. 

Do you have a reference to her book? Looks like a good line.

She mentioned it in her Joseph Smith Symposium talk. You can listen to it here: Joseph Smith Conference Library of Congress

She explained that the Deuteronomists went to extreme measures to get Israel to worship at the temple and only worship Yahweh in their proscribed way. The temple worship was sanitized, removing from it any vestige of potential pagan worship (including the removal of all tree-symbols, as they also represented Asherah). Through King Josiah, they destroyed all of the high places/altars in the wilderness that were used to worship Yahweh. Revelation was no longer desired, as it opened the door to messy religion - what happens if a prophet from outside the Aaronic lineage shows up to call someone to repentance? Do you follow the prophet, or the priest?

There were two traditions to worshiping God anciently: one was temple-centric; the other was the altar in the wilderness as we see with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob's stone pillar at Beth-El (House of God) is reminiscent of such worship. Jeremiah condemned the Deuteronomists' methods by setting forth the Rekhabites, a desert nomadic people that worshiped God in the Abrahamic-way, as the correct example of Yahweh-worship. The Nephite worship emphasized the Abrahamic worship, not the Deuteronomistic, although the temple became a central location for major festivals and teachings. You'll note that temple-related theophanies in the BoM are often tied to trees: Nephi's Asherah in his Tree of Life Vision, Jacob's retelling of Zenos' Allegory of the Olive Tree, etc. You'll also note that worship is not tied solely to the temple. As late as Alma and Amulek, we see them explaining to the poor Zoramites that God will hear their prayers even in the wilderness, and not only on top of the Rameumptom (had to get my nickname in here somehow!)

As to pillars, the Nephites don't seem to have necessarily emphasized them as much as the Jews did. We do have Lehi and Nephi building altars, which in some sense may have represented pillars to them. There is a greater focus on towers/mounds, which are used for preaching (King Benjamin), or prayer (Nephi on his garden tower). Mountains are important in Nephite theology, as it is upon the tops of mountains/towers that Nephi, the Brother of Jared, and others have intense theophanies occur.

BTW, while the discussion of towers as I've explained it does have place in this discussion. I do not feel that a discussion of 9/11 World Trade Center Towers fits in this discussion. Such an issue detracts from quality discussion, and derails such good discussions as this one could become. I hope Dunamis takes note and ensures that such discussions do not become chats on why the WTCT were destroyed.

[rameumptom]

A wicked man having a righteous thing will gain from it?

Nevertheless a wicked man may attribute all sorts of fortune to posessing the righteous thing. It is not beyond reason that a wicked man will be superstitious. He knew that it was a thing that righteous men believed. So it is not illogical that he was a great hunter and attributed it to having Adam's coat of skins.

Satan always uses righteous powers and things to his own corrupt ways. In the BoM, the Urim and Thummim is discussed, wherein it is explained that it must be guarded so that evil men do not look in it and seek things they ought not seek.

I see it similar to the computer and Internet. It is a wonderful tool in the hands of a righteous person. However, too many evil people have caused the number one search item on the Internet to be pornography. Obviously, too many evil people are seeking for things they ought not on this man-made U&T.

[rameumptom]

There are close ties to Nimrod and the Pharaoh of the Book of Abraham, also. Tradition has it that Adam's garment (which Ham stole from Noah) was passed down to Nimrod and this is what made him the great hunter he was.

I still maintain this is mere myth. A wicked man having a righteous thing will gain from it? So if a wicked person buys garments on ebay, they can use them to their hunting advantage, and bag the biggest one? "What's your secret, Ross?" "Well, I buyed me one of them Mormon garments on ebay, and I put 'em on, and the darn deer just stand there and I says, "Come here, fella", and he come running right to me and stands so close he could smell my beer belch, and I just shot the darn thing." This is one you could test yourself--see if all the deer come running to you or stare in awe--I doubt it will work. If anyone can provide evidence by personal experience, I'm all for listening.

The point isn't whether it is a true historic story or not. The point is, there IS an ancient tradition that teaches this, and it ties in. Does everyone here believe the Flood was global? Or that Adam was the very first person upon the face of this 6000 year old earth? No. But that doesn't not diminish the teachings and symbolism within the stories, regardless of their accuracy, or historicity.

As for wicked men using good things for evil: have you never seen a wicked man use the Bible to get gain from the gullible? How about Jimmy Baker? Was his $60,000 dog house something that was righteously obtained? Or did he use his Bible as a method to live well off the backs of good people?

And no, I'm not interested in turning this discussion into one on the Trade Center towers. Please don't derail this discussion. Start a new thread.

[grego]

rameumpton wrote: BTW, while the discussion of towers as I've explained it does have place in this discussion. I do not feel that a discussion of 9/11 World Trade Center Towers fits in this discussion. Such an issue detracts from quality discussion, and derails such good discussions as this one could become. I hope Dunamis takes note and ensures that such discussions do not become chats on why the WTCT were destroyed.

Connolly wrote:

grego wrote: A wicked man having a righteous thing will gain from it?

Nevertheless a wicked man may attribute all sorts of fortune to posessing the righteous thing. It is not beyond reason that a wicked man will be superstitious. He knew that it was a thing that righteous men believed. So it is not illogical that he was a great hunter and attributed it to having Adam's coat of skins.

[Ron Beron]

Just a little something new. On reading the role of the obelisk in Egyptian culture I was struck by the fact that two of the these pylons faced the entrance to the temple where they were responsible for the greeting of the rising sun. I am not sure whether they were instrumental in the same case with the two pylons that stood in front of the Solomonic temple, but it is sure a close connection. In summary, some theories up to now:

1. Male and female, El and Asherah, elements of the two pylons.

2. Two obelisks representing primordial deities ala Egypt.

3. Twin Towers ??

4. Enoch and two pillars

[structurecop]

2 Kings 23

3 And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

To which pillar is this referring?

[Ron Beron]

2 Kings 23

3 And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

To which pillar is this referring?

From what I can understand it was simply a load bearing pillar with no special significance, but the ceremony itself was interesting. According to the Masoretic Text the literal word for "stood to" is actually "stood in the covenant." This is an actual description of what was occurring between King Josiah and the people around him. In a commentary on the Homeric war against Troy, Dictys Cretensis (De Bello Trojano I 15) stated that the prophet Calchas brought out a boar and each man took turns stabbing the boar while reciting a pledge to destroy Priam of Troy. This was their way of making covenant. In the OT a similiar covenant form was made between God and Abraham Gen. 15:9-21) where God passed between the pieces of the sacrifices (vs. 17) in the likeness of a flame. In Jer. 34:18, a similiar ceremony takes place. "18 And I will give the men that have transgressed my covenant, which have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before me, when they cut the calf in twain, and passed between the parts thereof"

[structurecop]

2 Kings 23 

To which pillar is this referring?

From what I can understand it was simply a load bearing pillar with no special significance, but the ceremony itself was interesting. According to the Masoretic Text the literal word for "stood to" is actually "stood in the covenant." This is an actual description of what was occurring between King Josiah and the people around him. In a commentary on the Homeric war against Troy, Dictys Cretensis (De Bello Trojano I 15) stated that the prophet Calchas brought out a boar and each man took turns stabbing the boar while reciting a pledge to destroy Priam of Troy. This was their way of making covenant. In the OT a similiar covenant form was made between God and Abraham Gen. 15:9-21) where God passed between the pieces of the sacrifices (vs. 17) in the likeness of a flame. In Jer. 34:18, a similiar ceremony takes place. "18 And I will give the men that have transgressed my covenant, which have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before me, when they cut the calf in twain, and passed between the parts thereof"

Forgive me if I'm not understanding correctly, but are you implying that "standing in the covenant" here means a standing inside some ethereal presence? Or that standing in the covenant is akin to a blood oath of some kind?

[Ron Beron]

2 Kings 23 

To which pillar is this referring?

From what I can understand it was simply a load bearing pillar with no special significance, but the ceremony itself was interesting. According to the Masoretic Text the literal word for "stood to" is actually "stood in the covenant." This is an actual description of what was occurring between King Josiah and the people around him. In a commentary on the Homeric war against Troy, Dictys Cretensis (De Bello Trojano I 15) stated that the prophet Calchas brought out a boar and each man took turns stabbing the boar while reciting a pledge to destroy Priam of Troy. This was their way of making covenant. In the OT a similiar covenant form was made between God and Abraham Gen. 15:9-21) where God passed between the pieces of the sacrifices (vs. 17) in the likeness of a flame. In Jer. 34:18, a similiar ceremony takes place. "18 And I will give the men that have transgressed my covenant, which have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before me, when they cut the calf in twain, and passed between the parts thereof"

Forgive me if I'm not understanding correctly, but are you implying that "standing in the covenant" here means a standing inside some ethereal presence? Or that standing in the covenant is akin to a blood oath of some kind?

It was a blood oath. Parts of a sacrificial lamb was passed around to those so engaged in making the covenant. There were four kinds of sacrifices practiced in the OT:

1. Gifts and tributes

2. Alimentary

3. Covenant and communion (blood sprinkling)

4. Expiatory

Of interest here is the third one. where we can see evidences of it in the Passover covenant of placing the blood of a sacrificed lamb on the lentils of the doors. Another great example is the "Covenant of the Pieces" in Genesis 15. We are presented with a portrayal of Abraham as a shamanic visionary.

1  AFTER these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2  And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3  And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4  And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5  And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6  And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

7  And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

8  And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

9  And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

10  And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

11  And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

12  And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14  And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

15  And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

16  But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

17  And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

19  The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

20  And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

21  And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Shortly afterwards, Abraham initiates the law of circumcision

1  AND when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2  And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3  And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4  As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5  Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7  And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8  And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9