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Fiveofclubs

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About Fiveofclubs

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  1. To answer your query, no, I'm not sure. I'd really like to think that He would grant you mercy for factors outside of your control, as doing the opposite would not make Him very just, but I can't be sure. However, I can be reasonably sure (doctrinally-speaking) that such mercy will not necessarily be extended to those who are not bound by factors outside of their control. The reason it will likely be different for me than it is for you is because I made my decisions uninhibited by external factors beyond my control. I made my choice in a controlled, informed frame of mind. I could have ch
  2. So much for that, huh? Haha, no worries though, I welcome continued conversation , even if the level of engagement appears to have deteriorated somewhat between us. "The prophets have spoken! Any man who is over 25 and still single is a menace to society!" I was unaware that such a statement constituted doctrine. I had always considered that statement as a personal opinion, particularly in light of the fact that Jesus himself died as a single man past that age. In further refutation, I wish to quote another prophet named Paul from 1 Corinthians chapter 7: "For I would that a
  3. My friend, I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic or playfully-provocative here! As someone who has had vicious struggles with suicidal tendencies, I wish to vehemently disavow any such drastic courses of action predicated upon any "Black-letter doctrine." From what I recall, on top of it being incredibly tragic, God considers suicide a pretty big no-no and that will surely work harder against you (or me) than our un-sealed status would! I would be more than happy to share some rehabilitative resources with you if you are having sincere thoughts of suicide. I'm not sure if this websi
  4. Thank you for your words of encouragement, @Tacenda. You've touched on a subject that frequently frustrates me - the idea the prophets and apostles are inspired mouthpieces for the Lord...except when they're not. And, even if they make problematic claims and policies, then they're human and can make mistakes even while under the Lord's direction. Makes it difficult for a simpleton like me to parse which policies and statements are actually from the Lord and which ones are not. Given the hurtful history you referenced regarding the race issue, history has shown that it's not wholly moral to
  5. @The Nehor, welcome to the conversation. "You seem to be picking apart the Laws of God looking for a way to break a commandment on the basis of a perceived greater good for yourself. I cannot imagine a God I would care to worship that would be impressed with that kind of action." I take it you either have not read all of the previous conversation, or there is so much of it that certain factors may not have been considered when composing your reply. As I have stated previously, I do not have any intention of leaving my wife. I'm simply confused that our prophets and scriptures see
  6. @Calm, thanks for letting me know about the edit function. Until such a time as I can officially edit that post, I wish to acknowledge the mis-attribution of the quote to the wrong Rain-named user! @Rain, thank you for adding to your thoughts and perspective. I find (comparatively) little of objection to what you've stated there, as a part of me resonated with the experiences you've shared. "If I am sealed to loved ones who choose another path will it pain me eternally? It's really the same question - if we are separated from those we love will we feel pain from it? Does God feel
  7. @Rain, YIKES! I am so sorry, I definitely messed that up!! I hope you can forgive me! I would like to edit it for accuracy, but I do not see an edit button anywhere on the post!! Do you happen to know if/how one can edit their comments on here? Thanks! As for your comments, I'll have to look it over tomorrow. Thanks for pointing out that issue!!
  8. Good day, fellow spirits, @rpn, I am also curious as to what things other than sins are covered by the Atonement. I can't seem to find recorded precedent of the Atonement fixing something outside the spectrum of sin, so I'm intrigued (with @Tacenda, it appears) about what you mean by that statement. It's possible that there is a perfect example of this, I just simply haven't seen it and was hoping you could share it with me. I'd like to believe that claim, but I cannot justify an unwarranted belief. Also, to all who have posted here thus far, I wish to thank you for your general c
  9. @Kenngo1969, not at all! Feel free to share anything that comes to mind, skeptical or otherwise! Exposure to differing perspectives can help me moderate my own . You brought up a few good points here, hopefully I'll be better understood by explaining my interpretation of them. "Forgive my skepticism. If it is ill-founded, feel free to upbraid me. For someone who is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you seem to have a very Evangelical take on the Doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ: Yew Marminz [sic] are works-based! Yew believe in da law! Yew don't bel
  10. Greetings friends, thanks for sharing your varied perspectives on this matter. Regarding @Tacenda's comments about the "error" or sinful choice of anyone's marriage, I don't believe that the church position that my non-member marriage was a sin. Through applied logic, if forgiveness and the atonement are the means by which to repent from sin, where does one derive that it can also fix non-sins? Unless, someone can assert that people can repent from non-sins through the Atonement. I'm unfamiliar with this having happened before, but I could be mistaken since we so frequently say that "C
  11. "I also know through experience that what we say here may mean nothing to you." @Rain, your responses are worth more than you know. I really mean it. Thank you. I hope I do not come across as dismissive, perhaps I simply bring the baggage of preconceptions which cloud my ability to see what you see. "If one divorces a spouse ONLY to gain the the celestial kingdom THEN I think most likely it is out of more concern for self than for the spouse which may be selfish, uncharitable or prideful and hurtful." Perhaps this is an area where my preconceptions have clouded my perspective
  12. @Calm, with regards to the infinite punishments for finite crimes, we teach of the "unpardonable sin." That's a one-time infraction that leads to an eternity of punishment from which one will not be offered the ability to repent. Much like you alluded to earlier, people's words/actions/thoughts are a culmination of varying factors over which they may not have full control/awareness, so I'm slow to judge those who are sons of perdition. Through the principle of applied charity, it seems beyond my understanding to think that a son of perdition can never, ever feel sorrow for his sin and want
  13. No problem. Thank you for your thoughtful comments. In particular, I found your story regarding your discovered medical condition to be enlightening. It sounds as though you are able to be considerate of the sociological, psychological, and physiological factors that inform one's character - which I work to be cognizant of myself. This seems to make you considerate and charitable when evaluating the actions/words/thoughts of another (at least from the context of this conversation), which I also try my best to do! On a fundamental level, every action and decision is the algorithmic r
  14. Thanks for your reply. Very insightful. I've frequently been confused by the semantics used in scriptures, and I sometimes feel I can't really know what's actually being said to me when I read them. When "eternal" doesn't mean "eternal", and "life" doesn't mean "life", I'm left to worry what other things I've made mistaken interpretations of. Per D&C 131 - "It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance." McConkie's interpretation of that verse was that doctrinal misinterpretations (even innocent, well-meaning ones) will not be granted as justifications for false beliefs (which i
  15. Thank you all for the uplifting and encouraging responses, I really appreciate your comments on this matter. Admittedly, my sources do strike me a bit more like Jeffrey R Holland than Elder Renlund. The reason that my initial contacts seemed to conclude a mistake of this nature may not be amenable is the same reason they seem to believe that repentance in the post-mortal life for a fallen member may be withheld. Alma 34 appears to indicate that the time after this life will be "darkness" in which no labor can be performed, that the devil will seal the sinner as his, and the Spirit of th
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