Victory For Antimormonism

[Mike Reed]

No it requires obtaining a strong testimony.

Does conversion come before or after the "strong testimony" is obtained? And when you say conversion and testimony, what do you mean? Definitions for these categories might be useful.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Mike Reed

[Pahoran]

Sure it is. He said, "Not until they remove their names from the record. Until then, we are stuck with trying to visit them on a regular basis. Not that I shirk from that duty."

Plain English, Pahoran. Now... this may not be what he meant, but this is what he said.

Thank you for admitting that you know perfectly well that he did not mean what you attributed to him; meaning that your previous interpretation, to wit, "But according to BCspace's remark, it wouldn't matter to him," was not true.

Because he never said "it wouldn't matter to him."

Note to BCSpace: you might think you are carrying on a casual conversation, but you're not. Every word you write will be parsed with uber-Pharisaical precision. Any detail you leave out of any sentence, however brief, will be taken as license to wilfully misrepresent you.

There, will that do?

This is the second time in two days that you've denied that plain english says what it says.

It is unfortunate that you have no good faith basis on which to claim to believe what you assert.

Regards,

Pahoran

[selek1]

Does conversion come before or after the "strong testimony" is obtained? And when you say conversion and testimony, what do you mean? Definitions for these categories might be useful.

"Conversion" is not a term one readily finds in Mormon circles, and so I'll fall back on my Evangelical background to try and define it for you:

"Conversion" is the point where one foresakes the natural man, takes up one's cross, and dedicates his life to the service of his God.

A "testimony" is a personal knowledge and/or assurance that:

1) Christ lives, after having offered himself as a sacrifice to atone for our sins,

2) that the Lord has chosen to restore the knowledge and authority of the Gospel in this dispensation

3) the power and authority ("the keys") of the Priesthood now reside in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

When a Mormon offers his "testimony"- he is affirming his (or her) personal conviction that God lives, that he loves us, and that he chose to restore his Church through a fourteen-year-old boy from New York- and that that restored organization continues to function to this day.

As to which comes first, the testimony or the conversion, one might just as readily ask, "At what point does a Christian receive Christ's image in their countenance"?

At what point does one convert from being a student of Christ to a disciple of Christ?

At what point do we transition from mere "followers of Christ" to "sons (or daughters) of Christ"?

The answer is both simple and exceedingly complex: "It depends upon the individual."

For some, it will be a single instance on the road to Damascus. For others, it will be a lifetime of service in the slums and ghettoes of Calcutta.

For one, it might be a single night reading the Book of Mormon, for others it might be a long journey from an empty grove of trees to a hot jail cell surrounded by a blood-thirsty mob.

Each of us has our own road to walk from "the natural man" to the "good and faithful servant of the Lord."

As I stated in the other thread, I have met disciples of Christ who were not members of the Church. I have likewise encountered Sons of Perdition who insist that they were (or still are) Bishops and Stake Presidents.

I (as with all the other faithful) am a Mormon not because I took the missionary discussions, or because I married a Mormon girl, or because my exhaustive study of history proved that Joseph Smith walked on water and shot sunbeams from his finger tips.

I am a Mormons because the Holy Ghost touched my heart and mind^* and testified the truthfulness of the Gospel and of the Restoration. I am a Mormon because I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the most complete understanding of the doctrines and essentials necessary to both return me to My Heavenly Father and to do so in a fashion that allows me the greatest spiritual growth.

The Lord has commanded each of us to develop our talents and to be "profitable servants"- not in monetary terms, but as a return on his investment in each of us. For myself and millions like me- the doctrines and teachings of the LDS church are the most effective means of fulfilling those commandments.

^*(Yes, Xander. In this regard- and this regard only- I admit to being a little touched in the head)

Edited April 27, 2012 by selek1

[Zakuska]

It happened again. Some anti-Mormon got to a newly baptized family in our ward. They were active and their son was in my Scout troop. Suddenly they won't allow their children contact with Mormons at all.

Clever strategy that: "Leave and don't contact anyone from the LDS church again." What are they afraid of we might strain some of the poison from the well?

We had this happen twice in the last three years.

[KevinG]

oh....never mind. I haven't the energy to match the acid...

He sees through a glass but cynically. I find it best to let him rant and move on.

[KevinG]

Read the post again. You're right. And maybe a little angry too. Please do not rope me into either category.

Sort of begs the question tho: does a successful conversion to Mormonism require a "conditioning process?"

Socialization helps but the witness of the Holy Ghost is the only sure anchor to the faith.

[KevinG]

Can I just add my disdain for those cynics who decided to pile on this thread for the purposes of pushing their own favorite flavor of apostasy.

I suppose I should have chosen to commiserate the loss of a brother, sister and their children to lies of our enemies in the social hall with other grownups.